Life After (2021) - full transcript

(film reel whirls)

- [Robert] People are
claiming to perceive a reality

that science has no explanation for.

- So, yes, I absolutely believe in ghosts.

I believe in spirits.

And I kinda sorta of believe in the soul.

- Life after death is
an interesting issue,

because we don't have anything conclusive

that says the survival hypothesis is real.

- I was born into a family
who believed in the paranormal

and we had a lot of paranormal
activity in our home,



so I always assumed everyone did

and it was just a normal thing for me.

- When I grew up, my mother's
parents were very much

so into, I guess what I
would call the paranormal.

They didn't use that word, as
that word wasn't known then,

but they would talk about
experiences with the other side.

They would talk about all
sorts of subject matter

that was far beyond what
science was considering today.

And I heard story, after
story, after story.

Now, as a kid, I listened
because it was fun,

especially we'd gather around
a campfire during Halloween

and they would tell the
best ghost stories ever,

but they were just stories.

Now I have to wonder today
with the path that my wife



and I have now gone down
if that wasn't a preface

to this path that I was supposed to take.

- I'm the founder of the
Hollywood Ghost Hunters,

along with Kane Hodder, who plays Jason

in the "Friday, the 13th"

and R. A. Mihailoff, who plays Leatherface

in "Texas Chainsaw Massacre."

Generally we show up,
the ghost gets scared.

- We have an infinite universe

and we have 100 billion
neurons inside our brain.

And given all of that,

it is unfortunate we know
hardly anything about it.

Yet, that's what life is all about.

And the answers to what
people are experiencing now

are probably buried within.

(singing in a foreign language)

- So what we're talking
about, are finding out answers

to the biggest questions out there

and how a person cannot be drawn

to studying this phenomenon,
it really astounds me.

You know, I get it, as a
scientist if you're looking

from the outside in you're seeing people,

that you would consider amateurs making

their own study of it,

but what else are they to do?

Someone has to start these
investigations initially.

I mean, in the early days of science,

scientists were considered the outcasts,

asking questions about
the nature of reality

that was contradictory to the
status quo and the zeitgeists.

They were the rebels.

They were the outliers,
they were on the fringe.

- [Man] So nobody wants to communicate?

(whispers)

- My opinion on life after death prior

to being involved in the paranormal;

I did believe that there was
an existence beyond death,

but what that capability was
interacting with the living,

in my knowledge didn't really exist.

There wasn't a connection

between the afterlife and the living.

Well that was proven wrong.

- I've been interested in the spirit world

and the paranormal since I was 13.

- Earliest recollection I
have of anything relating

to ghosts, or the afterlife,
was actually through my church.

I was raised Catholic and
anybody who is raised Catholic,

knows that there's a deep
mythology of the liminal world;

everything from Jesus
raising Lazarus from the dead

to purgatory.

So there's a deep belief that
the spirit world can connect

with the living world.

- 11 years ago, I was a complete skeptic

and it wasn't until I met my wife,

who had an interest in the paranormal,

that I start to see things differently.

She asked me to watch
paranormal shows with her

and I could sit through about
three minutes of it and say,

"This isn't real.

"This stuff isn't happening.

"This is for television only."

But then one Valentine's
Day, she asked me, she said,

"I wanna do something different."

I said, "Okay, what would you like to do?"

She said, "I wanna go ghost hunting."

And I was like, oh boy.

Oh, what is this?

Oh, this is where we came in.

So I did some research online,

found a specific hotel here in Phoenix

that had a reputation for being haunted

and booked the weekend,
thought I was done.

Then I realized, wait,
they're using equipment.

She's going to need something
to investigate with.

So bought her a night vision camera,

digital recorder and EMF meter.

Thought, okay, now I'm done.

Figured this equipment
would sit in the closet

for the next five years until
eventually we threw it away.

Well we went on the weekend.

And when we got back, I
was absolutely amazed.

My apologies if you're upset

or if I've done something to upset you,

I didn't mean to.

(whispers)

We were one of two guests in
the entire hotel that weekend.

Seven floors, there was no
one around to disturb us

or to affect our audio,
our pictures or our video.

When she started reviewing, we had things,

images in the photos I could not explain.

We had answers to our questions.

What was your name?

Names were being given?

Why are you here?

Answers were being given.

I was absolutely shocked

and spent months trying to
debunk what we had captured.

I couldn't debunk it.

So we returned again and again and again,

realizing that the answers kept coming,

the images in the photos kept appearing.

I think we investigated
that particular hotel

over 50 times to date capturing additional

evidence each and every time.

- [Woman] It's cold in there.

- It wasn't until I got in
school and started to tell other

people about the things
that happened in our house,

that I realized that
not be a very good idea.

That I don't think everyone
has this kind of life.

And that's when I began to realize

that we were little different.

- My paranormal experience just
kind of came out of nowhere.

My grandfather, I was living
in Chicago with my mom,

and my grandfather had died.

He got killed in one of those
cleaning the gun accidents.

If you get my drift.

And he wanted to be buried
in Paducah, Kentucky,

now he didn't have any money.

My mother didn't have very much.

So we put him on a train and

we rode from Chicago to Paducah.

And when we got there,

we found out that his name wasn't Kelly,

that his actually last name
was actually Greek, right?

So I found out it went from
a 100% Irish on his side

to a hundred percent Greek.

He was actually from Sparta.

We put him to the funeral
home and then my mom says,

"Let's find a place to stay."

Cause this was all snap, bang.

I mean, it happened
like, and we were gone.

So we walked downtown and it was,

we're trying to stay
close to the funeral home.

And we saw this place perfect movie set.

I mean, it was two stories,
dingy part of town,

the neon was flickering, the whole deal.

And we walk inside and the door guy,

the receptionist guy, my mother says,

"Do you have any rooms?"

And he goes, "Well, I've got one left."

And she goes, "Well, how much is it?"

And he told her, she goes,
"Okay, we'll take it."

And he looks at her and he goes,

"I have to tell you, it's haunted."

Now I'm 13 years old, right?

To me that I just got the
gold ticket to Disneyland.

We get up there and to explain it,

it looks like a volleyball court sideways.

It's all wood, big rectangle.

And on each side of the
room, there's a rolling bed.

And the neon's coming through the window.

I mean, it's just,

the atmosphere is
perfect for horror movie.

Well, middle of the night
I hear my mom scream.

So I sit up and I look
and here comes her bed,

come flying across the room.

I mean, not flying, coming fast, rolling.

And then I realized that my bed is rolling

and they both smashed into each other

in the middle of the room.

It was exciting and scary.

When I heard my mother scream, naturally,

I thought something was
wrong and I was gonna get up

and defend her with my
whole 13 year old self.

And then when I realized I was going,

Now I'm scared.

I'm like, what the heck is going on?

And we just looked at each other

and my mom finally just went,

"Hell, I guess the guy
downstairs is right."

Well, even back then, now
this is 50 years ago okay.

My mom was a very smart woman.

We set about trying to debunk it.

Now this is before anybody even knew

what the word debunk was right.

So we took a glass and
we laid it on its side,

cause that'd be a perfect circle,

nice circle and rolled it.

And it wouldn't roll.

I mean, we thought the
floors might've been warped

and that's what caused it.

A truck went by and vibrations.

So I went over and I got behind it

and I shoved it from the wall

and went about three to four feet.

Now these both went at
least 10 feet a piece.

So after the easiest way to say,

I was hooked.

- Most people in fact are hesitant to say

that they have these kinds of experiences,

which defy explanation

and hide in silence
because of fear of ridicule

once they share their
experience with others.

- I had a near death experience

when I gave birth to my first
son and that was back in 1979.

And at that point, after I had that,

I completely lost my fear of death.

Because I know it's not
what people think it is.

You don't just die and cease to exist.

That's just not probable.

And then having the experience
that I had cinched it for me.

So I'm not afraid of death at all.

Now dying is a different subject.

Death and dying are two different things.

I'm not a fan of that.

I don't want suffering
or anything like that,

but I definitely believe that
the human spirit goes on.

And I don't personally,

I know a lot of people feel
that some spirits are trapped

here by their trauma of
their death or whatever,

or they're just trapped
in a loop or something.

I think that they're here
because they don't want to leave.

- Have I ever seen ghosts?

Of course I have.

That's why I started this.

I mean, I've seen so many
ghosts and things like that.

I will tell you one that
was actually really cool.

I was in Liverpool in England

with a group called Anubis Paranormal.

And some of my friends from
Premiere Paranormal in Scotland,

and we'd gone there to ghost hunt

a couple different places.

And we'd gone to the Norwich Theater

and everybody was having all
kinds of experiences except me.

So I was a little, eh,
what's going on here right.

So anyway, we go down to the
basement and the basement,

the way to describe it, it is wide open

and then midway through,
there's a pipe about this big,

that goes right across the middle

so that you can't go any further.

You could step over it if you wanted to,

but it's put up there so
nobody goes past that.

And I look over and there's
somebody standing like right

where this light is, I
could have touched him.

And he's looking down like this.

I thought it was like somebody looking

at a K2 meter or their phone

and I looked back at the
girl that was the head of

Anubis to see if she was
going to yell at their guy for

being on the other side.

And she's like.

I turned around, absolutely nothing there

and I turned back and I looked her.

She goes, "You saw him too didn't you?"

And I went, "Yeah."

- [Woman] We're not here to harm you.

- Ghosts can take many forms.

I've seen them on FLIR imagery.

We've captured multiple human images

that have walked across rooms

and the halls with no
body heat whatsoever.

They are room temperature.

We have seen multiple and
recorded shadow figures

moving across doorways hallways and got,

and recaptured it on film.

Now the definition of a ghost or a spirit,

they take multiple forms.

So have we seen them?

Yes, we have.

- I don't think the word ghosts

actually fully describes what

we're maybe having contact with.

- The departed, I think
they're earthbound.

I think some of them are lost souls.

I think some of them want to stay here.

A lot of religions say that you

have to take that walk
down, and get judged,

that a lot of people probably
don't want to do that.

- Ghosts are not always
whispery, transparent,

elusive creatures that
go bump in the night,

more often than not they
appear like another person,

but they maintain their appearance

only for a very short period of time.

- There are spirits absolutely everywhere.

One of the questions we always get is,

"Okay, I want to capture
EVPs where should I go?

"Should I go to a cemetery?

"Should I go to a haunted location?"

The fact of the matter is

you can capture them almost anywhere.

We've gotten them in haunted locations.

We've gotten them in a moving
car going 75 miles an hour,

we've received EVPs.

We've gotten them in airports.

We've gotten them in so many places

that you wouldn't expect
an EVP to show up.

- I have not personally seen a ghost

and I have no intention of
personally seeing ghosts.

What I love to do as a
host of Paranormal Now

is have in-depth conversations
with those who have,

and those who investigate and research

this almost full time.

And that includes just regular people.

It can include scientists
and psychic mediums,

and they all have their
own personal journey.

- Is there anyone here?

We do a live show on KGR Radio called

Entity Voices Paranormal Evidence.

So we review evidence from investigators

all over the country and the world

showing some of their best captures.

We have seen things that we have not

gotten the opportunity yet to experience.

We've seen many great
shadow figure captures.

We have seen objects move.

We have seen chairs, slide.

- Hallucinatory?

Well, 25% of the time, so says research,

more than two people
observed that apparition.

Again, discounting the
possibility that there is

some kind of hallucinatory reaction

on the part of the experiencer

resulting in that kind of misperception.

- I can't see shit.

That's amazing, this glass is moving.

The evidence that is showing up today

far outweighs anything
that's been shown before

because of the availability to technology.

Cameras, phones, and everything else.

- The brain can obviously
play tricks with our reality

and cause us of course,

to misperceive and come
to wrong conclusions.

Wishful thinking that a
deceased relative is alive

and interacting with us also
will tend to bias us very much.

- The first recollection I have of hearing

a ghost story of someone within my world

was a friend whose
grandmother had passed away.

And shortly after her passing,
it was after the funeral,

his mother had had come home
to the room of the grandmother.

And when she went into the room,

the rocking chair that the grandmother

would sit in started rocking.

And at the same moment the room filled,

was just flooded with the smell of roses,

which were her favorite flower.

More than one sense was being utilized.

This was as a real to them as
any other part of their life.

So that was the first sort of
goosebumpy story that I got.

- First thing we need to answer is,

what's the difference
between a ghost and a spirit?

And most people don't know.

A ghost is something that's

still trapped here, earthbound, right?

For whatever reason they want to be.

They're afraid to make the voyage,

the journey, whatever.

The other ones is somebody

who's already crossed over and comes back.

That would be a spirit.

(whispers)

- When a spirit leaves the body,

we believe they take
with them many things.

They take memories, they
take their free will.

They have the ability to
travel wherever they want.

And we know that for a fact,

because we run a haunted
hospital in Ajo, Arizona,

and we have spirits that have

literally given us their
names and communicated

with us on a regular
basis when we're there.

Well, my wife and I
flew to the Philippines,

to the Diplomat Hotel,

one of the most haunted locations
known in the Philippines

and investigated it overnight.

My wife asked a question
and her question was,

"I'd like to communicate with
the spirits in this building."

And a voice came through
on her recorder that says,

"I can help you with that."

That voice was Michael from
our Haunted Hospital in Ajo

and he has shown up in
other locations as well.

The memories that you,
the spirits take with you.

And again, this is theory.

This is a personal opinion
based off of our research,

but those memories remain.

But they are added to
what we call a collective

consciousness, a universal consciousness,

a shared consciousness about life,

about the universe and
everything that occurs in it.

And the reason we believe that is

because we can ask a
question about an individual

that has passed away

and we can get the answer
from any other spirit.

It doesn't have to be
that particular spirit

that we're trying to reach.

We can get answers from any spirit.

- [Woman] This is the ghost lounge.

All the way over here.

(whispers)

- I cannot tell you how many
times people have said to me,

the reason I got into ghost
hunting was because the night my

grandmother died in Pennsylvania,

I got up to get a glass of water

and she was standing in my kitchen.

How many people said I woke
up in the middle of the night

and there was my dad standing
at the foot of my bed and

found out that they'd passed.

And I mean, I have heard
this at least a hundred times

and I think it's probably the most

normal ghost hunting story.

Now, obviously they can travel.

They were in a different
part of the country

and people are seeing them
right in front of them.

But I think that's somebody
who's passed and comes back.

Now, are the ghosts stuck in one place?

I don't know, but I think
they're familiar with that place.

I don't know how many other
spirits are hanging around,

so they just stay where they're at,

unless somehow you can
get them to cross over.

And I've actually done that one time.

After you do that, you just kind of figure

that there's nothing I'm
going to do in my life

better than what I just did.

Well, heres the story real quick.

Girl that I know from the movies

had asked me to come out
and ghost hunt her place.

Went out there and we all
went through everything

and nothing was happening.

So I asked her, I said,

"Anybody around here get killed.?"

And she goes, "Well, you
have the lady next door."

And I'm standing there with two girls,

one here and one here, right?

The other people had left,

cause we'd all gone through there.

And we're standing there and I say,

"Ask if she's here, the
lady who got killed."

K2 meter goes all five lights instantly.

It hadn't gone off all night.

So they look and I said,
"Start talking to it."

So she's talking and then I jumped in,

started asking things.

I said, "How many people are here?

"Is it more than one?

"Is there two?"

That's how you find out.

And I usually trick them a little bit.

(whispers)

But anyway, we're
sitting there and I said,

"Is there anybody who
wants to cross over?"

And it goes, all five lights.

I said, "That's a big
decision, are you sure?"

And it went all five lights

and the two girls are starting to,

wow, what's going on here?

I said, "Okay, what I want you to do,"

I said, "I don't know if this is positive,

"but what I've heard, do you see a light?"

(flutters lips)

I said, "Go towards it.

"Are you walking towards it?"

It's going off again.

And I said, "All right,
here's what I want to happen.

"I want to see this go down in strength

"so I know that you're
going away from me okay."

And it goes down to three lights

and the two girls are just
looking back and forth.

I said, "Are you almost there?"

And it goes down to two
lights, barely flickering.

And I said, "Can you give us
a sign that you've made it?"

And the girl on this side goes,

and I did too.

If you ever hear something ghost hunting

the first thing you do not do
is tell them what you said.

Okay cause that puts
something in their mind.

So I asked her, I said,
"Did you hear something?"

She goes, "I did."

I said, "So did I?

"What did you hear?"

And she looked at me and she
just had this look on her face

and she goes, "I heard a man's voice.

"He said, 'Goodbye.'"

I said, "I heard it too."

I have no other explanation.

- [Woman] This is your home?

- It affects you forever.

I mean, if you think that
you actually took a lost soul

and put him in heaven,
told him how to get there

and he actually listened and he got there,

that's better than winning a lottery

as far as I'm concerned.

If you have a heart and think
that that actually happened,

did it really happen?

I don't know.

But circumstances tells
me that he was listening

and he was following the steps.

And I said, "Can you, give
us a sign you made it?"

"Goodbye."

So I just choose to believe he made it.

Let's just put it that way.

- So what is going on here?

Why are so many people experiencing

interactions in the way they are?

This evidence is suggestive
of life after death,

but we've never captured a ghost.

We can't take a deceased apparition,

put it in a lab, study
it, analyze the energy,

how come we haven't done that?

How come they haven't brought us back

anything for wherever they may be?

Now that's interesting,
but they cast shadows.

They turn their head, so
people contend, and follow you.

Most of the time, when
an apparition is seen,

they're reported to try to communicate

something of great interest to the person,

but only rarely do they
actually verbalize anything.

They appear to cast a
reflection in the mirror,

occlude objects, they look physical,

but they also appear non-physical,
which is also a mystery

because here again, you
can have a group of people

observing the same apparition

but only some of the people
in that group will see it.

Which suggests a more psychic,

psychological component to the phenomenon.

Something that's actually similar to

some other phenomenon, like
unidentified aerial phenomenon.

A group of people will observe it.

A few will see it for some reason.

Is that a physiological thing?

Is there some intention behind it?

A unique sensitivity on the
part of the individual to

perceive something of that type?

There's no explanation for it.

It winks out, it goes away.

Leaves quite an enormous
impression on the individual

that's life-changing in many ways.

People do not fear death anymore.

They seem to contend that they have a

great understanding of
reality now for some reason,

as if they had many important answers to

the meaning of life answered
by their experience.

They're more than grateful
and receive comfort

in knowing that what they believe to be

a deceased relative is
interacting with them.

How can that not provide comfort?

- After that I was fascinated.

I started reading the
books that I could find

and things like that and to be honest,

not a lot happened because

you have to go someplace that's haunted.

But lo and behold, later on
in life, my mom had cancer

and I went back to sit with
her and take care of her.

And she didn't sleep in bed.

She would sleep in a recliner.

Now the way the room was set
up, she was in the living room

and she could look down the
hallway, past the bathroom,

past the kitchen, into the back door.

And finally my mother's sitting there,

now she's on drugs and things like that

cause she's battling, stage
four cancer in both lungs.

But my mother just looks over
and she says to me, she goes,

"Oh, my Indian is back."

"What?

"What Indian?

"What are you talking about?"

And she goes, "Oh, my Indian,
he's been coming for years.

"He stands at the back door.

"He just stands there

"and looks down the hallway towards me."

I went "And you never told me this?"

I said, "I go all around
the world ghost hunting,

"you never told me this?"

And she goes, "I know he's
here to watch out for me."

And I was like, "Why didn't you tell me?"

And she just smiled at
me and she just says,

"I've seen spirits my whole life."

- You hear that?
- Yeah, it's a man talking.

- They're either trapped or
they don't want to leave.

Or they don't know that they can leave

which is interesting too,

a very interesting theory.

Can you help them cross over?

- We don't believe the
spirits are trapped.

Now, there may be some
external circumstances

that can cause that.

If someone committed suicide, I mean,

we've gone to places 80 to 100 years later

than when they committed suicide

and their spirit is still there.

We've heard them communicate.

We've heard them give their name,

but does that mean that spirits
are trapped in a location?

No.

You can think of heaven as a place.

And religion kind of
lays it out as a place,

but it's more of a plane, not a place.

And we believe spirits have free will

just as we do as human beings,

they can make their own choices.

They can travel wherever they want

and they can be there in seconds.

They are not stuck to a location.

A lot of paranormal
investigators today are bound

to release them to the
other side, into the light.

We have run into some circumstances
where we've done that.

We haven't done it lately

because today we believe
that they're not stuck.

If they're there, they're
there for a reason,

those reasons can range from them

looking over family members, protecting.

And then you also have some
that show up that are just

plan annoyance and we have
asked and had them removed,

but the circumstances
are they have free will

and they have a mind of their own

and a consciousness just
like they had on Earth,

but a much more powerful one

that can take them to any area they want.

- I think if they could, they would.

I mean, if they could leave,

they would be gone if they wanted to.

But I just think their
here because they're either

attached to a possession
that they can't let go of

or stuck in the trauma
of a traumatic death

or just don't want to
leave somebody they love.

I don't know.

- My opinion on whether it's easy or not

for them to communicate is,

I'm kind of torn on my response to that.

We can turn on an EVP
recorder or a ghost box

and get response, after
response, after response.

We do notice that if we're trying

to communicate with one individual

there is a time limit
of which they drop off.

Whether they are being restrictive

due to energy levels that
they're using to do it,

whether it's because
they only want to divulge

so much information to not affect

the life we're living today,

we don't have those answers yet,

but they are definitely paths

we are going down to
get further information.

- Did you hear that?
- I did.

Is there anyone in here?

Can you say hello?

- I think that some of the
things that I've recorded

and had contact with probably
never lived here in any body.

So I don't think all of them
are spirits of dead people.

At my age I know more
dead people than living.

So I feel like I have an edge
over some other investigators

because I've got people on the other side

that are actively trying
to communicate with me.

So there's always that.

- Well here's the problem
with ghost hunting.

It's conjecture.

Everything about it is conjecture.

Where the voices come from.

Is this really happening?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay.

But it's happening.

- So the question is what
happens to the spirit

when the physical body dies?

Well even science today has
done various experiments

and is saying that they believe that

consciousness can and
probably does survive death.

- Consciousness is quite a word.

There've been many thousands of papers

written about consciousness over time

by many people who are
far smarter than I am

and we still don't know
what consciousness is.

We suspect that it is some separate entity

from ourselves that governs the brain.

It emerges from the physical universe

or does the physical universe
emerge from consciousness

and that's what people debate.

Is consciousness all

and does consciousness
persistent after bodily death?

If I had a gun to my head and
asked what consciousness is?

It's the fact that I'm
aware of being aware.

It's the fact that I can
dictate what I want to do today.

That's not my brain.

I like to think it's me.

I like to think that I'm telling

my body to look to the right, boom.

That was me.

I'm in control of my body.

Now I may be wrong.

If that's a delusion, so be it.

- The principles of
physics say that energy

cannot be created or destroyed.

It can only change form.

So the next question that is asked is

that when the physical body dies,

where does the spirit go?

Well, depending on what you believe in

and what your history and background is,

and maybe religious beliefs,

that may be heaven, that may be hell.

That may be just a
universal consciousness of

the energy of the spirit returning
back from whence it came.

But it takes memories,
thoughts, consciousness with it.

Can that spirit come back and live again?

Well there are studies showing that people

have done that and they
remember their past lives.

There are studies of young
kids explaining past lives,

where they lived, what happened
to them, how they died.

There was a kid over in,

I can't remember what country it was,

but he was explaining
about a life on Mars.

And he explained to NASA detailed

information about the planet Mars,

which they were absolutely
astounded at his ability

and the fact that he was
like 10 or 11 years old

explaining what the atmosphere was,

the physical makeup of the planet.

Those are the stories that
really makes one think,

okay what's possible
when the spirit leaves

this physical plane and moves on?

- I believe that the spirit that we are

goes on after the body dies.

I look at human bodies as like
big meat sacks full of water,

perfect for conducting
electricity and energy.

And that the actual human
soul is the being itself.

That we are magnificent, powerful beings.

And we're just, riding
along in the universe

in this experience we're having

in this little meat sack car.

And when the motor breaks
down, the battery dies,

we just go get another one.

I don't know where we go.

I suppose that your religious upbringing

and your preference would dictate that,

as far as I'm concerned, I've no idea.

I don't know if we get to choose.

I don't know where we go.

All I know is none of
us staying here forever

because ain't none of us
getting out of here alive so.

- We are bound to this earth
by our five physical senses.

That is what determines everything

we hear, see, feel, smell, taste,

but there is no way to
identify that when I say,

"Hey, that's red."

That what I'm seeing
is what you're seeing.

Yeah, that's red, we'll agree it's red,

but there's no way for me to
know what your red looks like

or for you to know what my red looks like.

- And it makes you wonder
about ghosts, right?

Because just like us,

we have certain abilities,
innate abilities,

our own biological technologies.

So I always wondered why don't you

see ghost on the video as much?

And it might be as simple as not knowing

how a ghost is composed.

They are limited too, right.

Just because they can come through

as an electronic voice phenomenon

doesn't mean that they
can also manipulate light

in the way that we were
able to see them visually.

So they might have
limitations of their own.

- [Man] What the heck was that?

What the was the fuck was that?

What the heck was that?
- You heard that too?

- [Man] Oh, absolutely.

- [Man] That was in here, not outside.

Who was in here?

Say that again!

- The other question that
we always get asked is,

how can you be sure this is
what you're interacting with?

How do you know it's spirits?

Well, to answer that question, we don't,

what we do know is that
we are interacting with a

consciousness that is not in physical body

or in the location we're interacting with.

What consciousness it is?

We don't know that for sure.

All we know is that we're
getting answers to the questions

we asked with timing and
relevance to that question.

To get somebody to believe you?

We gave up on that six
months after we started.

There are people that believe
that need no evidence at all

and there are people
that don't believe that

whatever evidence you
show won't be enough.

A friend of mine always says

people who are trying to
figure out if big foot exists,

they could have lost their keys

and big foot could hand it to them

and it wouldn't be good
enough for them to say,

"Oh, okay he exists."

So it's a tough battle,

which makes this research
extremely difficult

because you've got people on both sides.

- 5-2-2, they're in here.

Oh my God.
- What?

I didn't touch you.
- No I know.

- [Woman] What?

- [Man] I think he just ran through Me.

- Yeah, I felt a gust.
- Holy he just ran through me.

Look, I'm in points again.

- I think there's consciousness
after death with humans.

I don't know what it is exactly.

But through my own experiences,

experiences with people
that I know, loved ones,

I've had the sense of
communion with a friend

that I had lost a long time ago.

It was through primarily dream states,

but it felt like a
clear messaging from him

that he's with me still.

It's hard to say for sure,
cause it was a dream,

but there are other
people that I know that

and people on the show
that I talk to that,

yeah they've heard and felt and seen signs

that there is life after death.

And so I'm inclined to believe it,

but believing in something
it's not the same as saying,

"I know it for a fact."

And does it give me comfort?

Yeah, it kinda does, but
I'm also quite comfortable

with accepting that maybe what
we think of as consciousness

after life is really
just the Akashic record.

And so it's just a record
imprinted on the universe

of who we were in our time on this planet.

And maybe that's what a ghost is, right.

It's just like this
quantum reflection being

that time really doesn't exist.

So we're all everything's
existing at the same time,

the past, the future, now.

So we're really just seeing ourselves

or other individuals playing out

and it's sort of peaking
through the veil as it were.

- I've been slapped, pushed.

I had three huge scratches go from

about here on my arm
all the way to my wrist.

And the funny part was is we weren't

even in a haunted location.

We were there the night before
and we were at a restaurant

sitting outside talking
to some friends of ours.

And I think I made the mistake

by sharing with them
that I was asking EVPs,

gave the name of the spirit
who gave me their name,

explained the other information
about what they told me.

And I don't think they liked that.

I didn't even feel the scratch.

There were three people,

including my wife sitting at a table.

I was standing and I was just talking

and I had short sleeves on and
all of a sudden my wife goes,

"Oh my God, you're bleeding.

"What happened?"

Well, I hadn't even moved.

I mean, I was just
standing and sure enough,

I had three deep welts that didn't

look like your typical scratch.

You can almost see the burn
imprint of where the faint,

I have pictures, the burn
imprints where the fingers hit

and then scratch down it
and it burned like crazy.

- [Interviewer] Wow.

- [Woman] All right.

We're here again.

(whispers)

- I have had experiences with what

people might consider a ghost.

I'm a widow and shortly
after my husband died,

I wasn't feeling so great

and I was laying on the couch
with a wash rag on my head

and I was kind of just
staring off into space, like,

and I was kind of focused in between

the space between the ceiling and me.

And all of a sudden I saw
this face pressed down

as if somebody had some
saran wrap in front of me

and pushed their face
through the saran wrap.

I could see the impression of their face.

I couldn't see anything,
the white ceiling behind it,

but it was that mold and it was his face.

And it was so detailed that I could see,

he was very concerned about me.

And I said to him out
loud, it didn't scare me.

I said, "I'm okay, you can go.

"I'll be all right."

And slowly, that impression
lifted back into nothingness

and I didn't see it anymore.

Kind of reminded me of
when you look at that

page of nothing but colored dots.

And then all of a sudden,
if you look at it just

the right way with one
eye cocked sideways,

all of a sudden this image
pops out in 3D at you.

That's how I saw him.

- I'd gone down to see my dad,

I was probably 24.

And he and I had not
been speaking for years

and he invited me down.

So I went down with a friend of mine

and I'd driven the whole way from Chicago.

And I was tired, and my dad had,

one of his salesman had
left his car at the bar

cause it was his birthday.

My dad was driving him
back to get his car,

which I thought was a really great idea

to take a drunk back to
his car and drive home.

But that's what they were doing.

And I asked my dad, I said,

"Well, I don't want to go back to the bar.

"I want to sleep.

"Where's the bedroom."

And he says, "Go in that one."

So I go in the bedroom
and it's got a canopy bed,

like more like a lady's bed.

And so I go in there and I'm laying down

and the moonlight is coming
in from the foot of the bed.

And I locked the door.

I always lock my door at night

and had one of those slider locks on it.

And I laid down and everybody
was gone out of the house.

I laid down in and I hear.

(gasps)

Right here and I went.

And I'm not instantly going paranormal.

I was like, what was that?

Oh well, and then I hear again.

(gasps)

Now I'm starting to wonder right,

and I thought, does he have a dog?

So I got up, I looked under
the bed to see if there was

a dog under there, snoring or something.

I opened up the closet, nothing.

So I closed it again and I'm sitting there

and I can see the room
because of the moon.

There's nothing in there other than me.

And I look up and I see
a right to this side,

I see an air conditioning vent.

And I went, oh the air
conditioner turned off

and it does it again.

And I'm like, the air conditioner,

doesn't turn off three
times in a row right.

So I'm sitting down and
I'm going, what is this?

And I'm sitting up just
like this on the bed.

And I'm looking around,

cause I've got the light to
look and right here on my neck,

never forget it, right here
on my neck and real loud,

I could feel the heat, it went.

(gasps)

I jumped out of bed, grabbed the door

because of slider lock was on it.

I couldn't find it.

So I just went like this and went snap

and broke the frame of the door

and went out and was
standing in the front yard

cause he lived in a cul-de-sac.

And about five minutes later they pull up

and he comes out and he
looks at me and he goes,

"Huh, he got you didn't he?"

This is the first day
I'm there, I said "What?"

And he goes.

(gasps)

I said, "You know about that?"

He goes, "Happens all the time."

- We have rocks being thrown.

In fact, not less than a month ago,

I was down at our hospital.

I was the only one in there.

I'm holding a recorder.

I'm standing in the old waiting
room, which is very active.

I'm asking to speak to Michael.

Michael does not respond.

Some other spirit response,

tells me to get out and
instantly throws a rock.

This is a small room.

It's probably not bigger than a third

of this room that we're in

and this rock comes flying out of nowhere

and you can hear it hit the
floor and rolled across.

- [Interviewer] And you find the rock?

- I found the rock and yes,
I have this all on tape.

If there's any spirits in this lounge,

can you say something to us?

(rock clatters)

Well, you can take that back to

the whole communication process.

If they can leave the
EVPs through mental energy

or conscious energy and
direct that to a device

that's recording and make
it sound like their voice

come across as their
voice in the spirit realm,

why couldn't they easily create energy

to slap you across the face,

push you downstairs?

From a scientific
principle it can be done.

- My mother passed away.

I had paranormal experiences with my mom.

We had talked about death before she died

and she told me that she would come back

and show me if she could that

there was more than just this life.

And by God she did the
night of the day she died,

in front of my husband even,

Her picture literally leaped
off the wall in our stairwell,

rolled down to the stairs
with a crashing sound

and ended sitting straight up.

And I'm like, the first thing
I thought was that's mom.

She said she was going to, and she did.

- I was in Balgonie Castle one time

and they had the Frank's Box

and they were asking this
and that and the other thing.

And the other thing, and I said,
"Can I ask you a question?"

They said, "Yeah."

And I said, "Is there
anything in the castle

"that we should be afraid of?"

- [Man] The energy.

- So sometimes it doesn't take

a long drawn out conversation.

One of the things that I have,

and I actually have this on film,

was a K2 session that I had.

And it was two floors down

in a hotel in Edinburgh, Scotland.

And it was.
(snaps fingers)

Right on with the answers,

one right after the
other, after the other.

I said, "Is there anybody else here?"

It goes off all five flights.

And I said, "If I started
counting, make it light up

"when there's how many people are here."

And I said, "Are there two?"

And it goes five lights,

and he looks at me and
I go "Three," nothing.

"Four," nothing.

And he's looking like,
you see he's confused.

And I said, "Are there five," nothing.

I said "Two?"

Five again.

And then he goes, "Oh!"

I said, "Yeah, sometimes
you got to throw a

"little curve ball in there to see

"if there's something
intelligent listening."

And obviously there was.

- When I've done EVP
sessions in investigations

that we've done.

Do you have a name?

- [Man] Bret.

- I have had a, there's one
AVP that I call Dr. Rupert.

And it's the voice of an old woman.

It's pretty clear.

And she says, "Call Dr. Rupert."

- [Woman] Call Dr. Rupert.

- When we played back this
EVP for the homeowner,

they immediately got
emotional and they're like,

that's grandma so-and-so.

I mean, they ID the voice as

one of their deceased relatives,

they were very emotional about it.

One of my favorite EVPs of all time

was captured when I was an investigator

with my group in Indianapolis called EMBA,

we had a very professional
setup at a home,

a single family home who
had complained about seeing

a little girl running around
upstairs in their house.

And they don't have little
girls in their home.

The house was empty.

We had our station set up in the garage

and in the living room we had,

my digital recorder was on a coffee table.

We had another camera in the room

that also had audio capability recording

and their family dog was
the only thing in the house,

wandering around the house.

And as the family, in
the video you can see,

as the family dog walks past the recorder

that's on the coffee table

you hear this EVP and it
will blow your socks off.

Because the EVP was the
voice of a little girl.

- [Girl] Hi Ginger.

- Clear as a bell.

The dog's name was Ginger.

That's what really
knocked us all for a loop.

A, we knew there was no
children in the house.

There wasn't anyone in there, but us

and B, the dog's name was Ginger.

And the EVP was recorded on the recorder

that was on the coffee table by the dog.

I mean that, how can you, that's
stuff, that's great stuff.

And that's so convincing, and
getting these over the years

has really fueled me and kept me going.

That's my favorite of all time though.

- [Man] All right, the
last time we were here

you gave me your name, you
said your name was Michael.

Michael, are you here?

(whispers)

- EVPs are the first step we
take to find out if there are

spirits in a location,
but EVPs are never enough.

We are always looking for
multiple gadgets to react

simultaneously to back up the
evidence that we've captured.

When you can get EMF meters, EVPs,

there is such a huge variety of devices

that are used within
paranormal investigation.

And there's not a device
technically out there

that's specifically made for paranormal

and the newer ones that are out today.

Yeah, they may be made for it

but do they really classify as being

indicators of the paranormal?

The answer to that question is no.

There is not a device specifically made

or that can truly identify.

So that makes our job tougher.

We have to find ways to interact.

There isn't a device out
there that skeptics are not

wanting to come forth and
go, "Well, that's not true."

Spirit boxes, all you're picking up radio.

SLS devices, which
capture images of spirit,

as they're used for the X-Box
to trace the human body.

Are those devices made to map
out and look for human shapes.

They are no doubt about it,

but there are experiences where

multiple pieces of equipment,

regardless of what that equipment is,

interacts in a way where you get a voice,

you get EMF activity, you
get temperature changes,

you get responses on a ghost box

and then it's takes another step forward.

You get slapped, pushed, a
rock is thrown from a room

you are the only one in

and that has happened
to us multiple times.

They know you're there.

They're letting you experience
them on an additional level

beyond equipment flashing
or blinking or beeping.

They're giving you their voice.

They're telling you that they're there

and they're giving you
a physical reaction that

wouldn't occur under normal circumstances

if they didn't cause it.

- I do think that people
should be very open-minded to

believing in ghosts and EVPs.

And I think that it's because,

what it's saying is that just
like in our modern world,

there is the other, right.

There's your tribe, my
tribe, this part of society,

this subculture, this country,
and so on and so forth.

And, thankfully to space travel,

we've had those images
of that small blue Earth

that reminds us that we're
all in this together.

We're in the shared earth bound reality,

and that's profound.

And the effects of that while not

fully evolved and accepted by some

have had a very positive
impact on human society.

And I think that this
phenomena goes even deeper.

Maybe a ghost isn't this thing
in another separate reality,

but in a sense it's part
of this shared reality.

We just can't see it
right now as human beings.

We haven't learned how
to measure it quite yet,

but perhaps part of our evolution

will be one day we also
will be able to send

an the EVP to the other side,

maybe not just using a device,

but using our own mind to do that.

That'd be awesome.

I'd love to see human
beings evolve to the point

where we just accept all levels of reality

as a shared space.

So I think opening up
your mind to the idea

and possibility that ghosts exist,

that spirits exists is a,

it's a very humanitarian concept.

You know, that we're
all in this together and

let's seek out answers together

so that we can help one another

and better understand
the nature of reality,

which is to say that will
better understand ourselves.

- [Man] We've tried to
communicate with spirits

all over the world now.
(whispers)

- When you take a look at the different

evidence that's captured,

one of the questions
that we usually get is

what's the strongest evidence?

Is it an EVP?

Is it spirit box?

Is it a photograph?

Is it a video?

Those questions are hard to determine

because it really depends on
what it is you're looking for

in the evidence you're trying to capture.

Like I said about EVPs,

the great thing about 'em
is you get a response,

you get the message,
answer to your question.

You can tell whether
it's male, female, child,

whether there's an accent.

That to us is the ultimate evidence

because we asked a question
and we got a response

when there's no one in the room,

or maybe even the entire building.

Photographs are great

because they do capture
some amazing things.

Photographs are a little
harder to substantiate today

because of technology such as Photoshop,

a lot of things can be faked.

Back when you were dealing
with 35 mm cameras,

it was much harder to put an
image in or overlap images,

video, same thing.

There is what's known as CGI

and a lot of stuff that floats

around out on the internet today.

You can clearly tell somebody,

tried to manipulate it with CGI.

CGI is not easy to do and
expensive, but we have seen it.

So what's the best evidence.

Well, to us, the best evidence

is a combination of all of them.

The more evidence you can get,

whether that be pictures, video, EVPs,

the more you get to substantiate

saying there's something here,

here are all the different
things we captured.

That is the best evidence you can get.

- Perhaps the most convincing
evidence of life after death,

the survival hypothesis, are in rare

but validated cases that are
called Peak In Darien cases.

These are instances where
people who contend to have a

near-death experience,

report an interaction with somebody.

In one case this individual,

who's well-known and has
written books on the topic

and has lectured on it,

says, for instance,
that he had met a woman,

was given her name

and information about her and the parents.

When he recovered from his
life-threatening illness

he reported that
information to his parents,

the woman's name and other information

that the parents contend
with fierce determination

that he could not have known.

We have other cases
whereby people who contend

that they've experienced
the alternate reality

specifically in a
near-death experience with

the beautiful landscape,
with the Supreme Being,

with the profound feeling of love

and connection to whomever.

Is that a representation
of piercing the veil

and experiencing an alternate reality?

When they come back with
accurate information

from someone who the parents contend

was that person's sister in this case,

who had died before
this individual was born

and was never given
information about that person,

yet reports accurate
information to parents.

Well, whether it be talking about?

Subjective evidence,
anecdotal information,

evidence that does not ascribe to

the scientific method
or our current paradigm.

So it's discredited, denounced,

for a variety of different reasons

that are used as an
explanation to consider a near

death experience, for instance,

to be nothing more than
the hallucinatory reaction

of an oxygen deprived,
chaotic existing brain,

which may be true.

If it is, how did these individuals
get accurate information

that the parents or whomever
contend was impossible?

Other than by talking
directly to that person

who this person will contend was deceased

and met in some alternate reality

as part of a near death experience.

I can't explain that.

Maybe it is explainable,
but to me, if you had again,

if you're pressuring me to give
you any evidence that says,

what is so suggestive of, I'd
say the Peak In Darien case.

- You have to be, you have
to have that skepticism,

no matter how far down the path you go.

I started with it from
an extreme beginning,

and it's never fully left,
no matter what we capture,

I go, okay, is there a
reasonable explanation for this?

Was this something that can be explained?

And we will go through every,

which is the whole reason
we use multiple recorders.

If it is a natural sound
in the environment,

it's going to show up on at
least the majority of them.

- [Interviewer] And that has
to happen sometimes right?

- Oh, it does, absolutely.

We think we have something paranormal.

We review the multiple recorders,

realize it's on all of them

and then we usually have
video cameras set up

as well from different angles to go,

okay there was a bird
that hit the window or,

so we try to go through every aspect

we can to make sure that
if we're showing something,

we don't have anything to
or justification to say,

we can't explain this.

When we first started,

which is what I said about the orbs,

Sheri and I posted what we thought was

the most amazing orb capture ever caught.

We were in the hotel San Carlos,

I called out for this woman Candy,

who I spoke about before

and this orb comes from
the back of the room,

goes all the way across the
bar, right up to the camera.

And she responds, we posted it.

And every person in the
world go goes, "That's dust."

And it was dust, but we didn't know.

We had just started.

We were inexperienced and yeah,
I'll never forget that ever.

- [Woman] Can you move
the balloon here, please?

Can you stop the balloon?

The balloon is moving.

- That's the other thing about

being a paranormal investigator is

you need to listen to other groups.

The whole concept of
Pari-Unity is a great concept.

Unfortunately, it doesn't happen.

People don't want to share their evidence

or their locations of
where they captured it.

They want to keep it to themselves.

They want to bask in the
limelight of what they captured.

The paranormal is a huge expanse

of determining what's happening.

No one is going to figure
this out on their own

and only through a wide
variety of researchers

will we ever be able to
start to understand answers,

- I've had people say to me,

how can you believe in this
stuff and believe in God

and be a good Christian and all that.

And it's like, to me, religion and this

have absolutely nothing
to do with each other.

This is science to me

and religion is something
completely different.

So I never had any conflicts
with things like that

when I did research and investigation.

- And I think that, unfortunately,

there's not enough scientific
study done on the paranormal.

Now I know that Billy Bigelow had

spent money at the Skinwalker
Ranch to do studies.

And I know that, cable
programs are now producing

and spending money to create shows

and so there is some funding
for isolated points of study.

But what we need is
something that's more like

a crowdfunded, a transparent
university level,

ongoing study of the phenomenon.

- We are scratching the
surface with stone knives

and bear skins, grumbling out
at all, pounding our chest,

applying scientific principles
that simply do not apply

to what people are reporting.

Now is it hallucinatory?

Can a simple explanation be given to

individuals who come up with
these unique conclusions

of interacting with deceased people?

What are they talking about?

- [Man] I can feel you.

You are definitely near me.

- We need a control.

So I've seen experiments done where

someone takes a device, a meter,

and it's a post to read
electromagnetic waves

and they close it off
and encase it so that

there's no outside interference.

And if you actually pick
something up in that case,

that's extraordinarily fascinating

because the question is,

how has this meter picking
up some kind of voice or

communication when by all accounts,

you've created a shield
around it to block out.

I think that's very compelling,

but here's the clincher.

So if a EVP is a message or
communication from a ghost.

That ghost or entity in
whatever form it's in

is manipulating energy
and translating that

into something that
either a human could hear

or into a radio wave that
the device can pick up.

The problem is if the
device itself is encased,

how does a ghost manipulate
the energy that it

has access to and to send
that to the device itself?

So what I would like to propose,

and this would require
some serious funding,

would be a scientific study
where instead of the device

being enclosed, encased in
like a Faraday Cage or shield,

you go to a haunted site that
has repeated a phenomenon

and create a giant Faraday cage,

let's say, over a haunted house.

So surrounding that whole
house and immediate property,

and then do your meters,
your meter takes there.

So then do your readings, your recordings,

ask your questions, see
if you can get a response.

If that's the case, then again,
you're getting a response

from something that is not
coming from the outside world.

And what you're also doing
is allowing the spirit that's

there access to more inherent energy.

Human beings just at rest we
emit about 100 Watts of energy

and every object, a wood board
in the building of the house,

grass, rocks, everything emits
some level of radioactivity.

And so if we're going with
the hypothesis that a ghost is

taking energy from its
surroundings and manipulating it in

a way so that it can be picked
up by a device's microphone,

then instead of closing
this off into a Faraday cage

and closing off a larger
area into Faraday cage,

you're giving that entity that
much more access to energy

that I could manipulate and
push towards the device.

Again, this is totally a hypothetical.

I have no idea if this would work or not,

but I think it's worth
the line of investigation.

- And you know what?

10% to 30% of Americans claim to have

experienced an apparition,
a sense of presence,

a visual presence of a
deceased relative or friend.

If it's hallucinatory

why is it always of a deceased
person 80% of the time?

What other explanations
can attribute two people

experiencing a deceased
apparition at the same time?

Does that type of multi-person
experience lend credibility

to the fact that this is
not hallucinatory in nature.

I mean, we live in a paradigm
that is not appropriate.

That science cannot answer.

That cannot be accurately
applied to determine the validity

of the types of experiences
that people are reporting.

And so most of these
individuals live in silence

and do not share their unique
experiences with others

for fear, again, of ridicule.

People believe it to be
true and this is the key

to millions of people,

they are having valid experiences

that are altering their personality.

Many people are claiming to be transformed

in a psychosocial way
after they interact with

another reality and they claim to

do so in many different ways.

I am not claiming that.

I'm just simply relating the evidence

for others to interpret.

That's why I wrote the book

Life After Death: An
Analysis of the Evidence.

And more recently,

Unseen Forces: The Integration
of Science, Reality and You.

Try to figure out,

not coming up with any answer for sure,

because I don't have one.

And for those who claim to have answers,

all I can say is that your ego is showing.

There are no answers.

At most I will say that
something quite profound

is occurring to millions of individuals

that defy logical explanation.

What that is I don't know.

- Energy can neither be
created nor destroyed

and so all we're asking is

can our energy as human
beings simply transform

into another form of energy?

Everything you feel and think,

and have experienced,
positive or negative,

will continue to exist for essentially

eternity is extremely exciting.

(sings in foreign language)