Buzz (2019) - full transcript

Pulitzer prize-winning reporter and author, Buzz Bissinger, experiences a sexual awakening while collaborating with Caitlyn Jenner on her tell-all memoir.

Three, two, one...

Happy New Year!

These tapes
are the next big thing.

Who knew that they were lighting
it up like this?

♪ Come join the party ♪


It's like the biography
of Bob Fosse,

with Roy Scheider.

I always remember when he would,
like, look in the mirror

every morning and say,

That's what being a reporter
is like.


The best of Buzz Bissinger,

as a writer and as a guy,

if you just separated out
the best of him,

he's been to some mountaintops.

Okay, Buzz. Let's get it on.

You say yes to the book...

- All right.
- ...I write it...

...I get all
the money, but I thank you.

- Isn't this--
- I-- I thank you at the end.

Is-- Isn't this just
where we started, Buzz?

Pretty much. I had--
I was telling her,

I had the first sandwich ever...

- Uh-huh.
- this house.

But I look a lot better now.

A lot better.
You look fantastic.

You know,
Buzz is a straight shooter.

He's a sensitive reporter
as well,

so, you can send him out
on a... on a great story

and he, um...

he handles things
with great sensitivity,

as he did
the Caitlyn Jenner story.

And he was my first choice
for that story.

It's the most iconic
magazine cover

of the last 15, 20 years.

I mean I'm sure that cover
was seen by almost every...

sentient being in the world.

So, let's talk about
the book a little bit:

what you're thinking,
what I'm thinking.

Is there a book
beyond the piece, basically?

- Right.
- You want a book to be fresh.

You know, it's gonna sell,

but it'll really sell, I think,
if it's all new.

I think...

it's one-third...

dealing with my issues...

one third, or maybe even more,

of this community...

- Mm-hmm.
- ...and what I have learned.

But I would also like to have
an element of

what's happening in social media

to see how the internet,

the-- the tabloids,
trash media, this and that,

how it changed the world.

I think all of that
should be in there,

and then it's like--
it's like the Vanity Fair piece

- What's the structure?
- Yeah.

Well, actually
there's a pretty good structure,

which is
the education of Caitlyn.

- Right.
- You know, you--

Everything you're doing now,

I would think,
is completely new.

So, I think there is a book.

And I think any book is enhanced

by new reporting
and new information.

Right, right.

I think
there are many more people

dealing with difference
than we know about...

- Oh, I guarantee it.
- ...who want to express

- And are-- Look, uh, you know...
- Everybody--

You've been through it in spades
but I've been through it, too.

It's really hard.

Everybody's got their stuff,

- because we're all different.
- Right.

It's a seminal moment in, um...

in terms of...

the-- our culture, that...

Bruce Jenner
became Caitlyn Jenner.

I mean, and-- and Caitlyn Jenner
now is out in the world

and is... really kind of--
she's not vilified.

You know, she's...
she's sort of celebrated.

Her story is really important

and I think it's good that
Buzz is-- is gonna tell it.

This is not just about
transgender men and women;

it's about difference,

and it's about accepting
and celebrating difference,

which is hard.

- I agree.
- Which is really-- and I f--

I feel and I really now
am sort of committed to gender--

You know, what--
I don't know what gender is.

I don't, you know, I don't know
what men's clothing is,

I don't know what women's
clothing-- Who gives a shit?

- Yeah, I agree.
- Who gives a shit?

- We're just all people.
- Right.

We're all human beings.

And I--
And I really thank you for that.

- I mean, it's heartfelt.
- Yeah. No.

This, to me, is an
extraordinarily important book,

and I think it's really going
to be a lot of fun.

The outlier
always has to consider

not just the truth

and the integrity
of their own position,

their own feelings,

but also, what's the effect
in the real world?

Imperfect and narrow-minded as
some of that real world may be,

what's the effect
on those they love?

That's it.
You're a good girl. That's it.

I love Lisa to death.

She's delightful.
She has a big heart.

She's warm. She's funny.
She's beautiful.

it sure looks beachy out here.

What are you doing?
What are you doing?

What are you doing?

But I have a darkness
and I've done a lot of damage.

That's it.
That's as much as I run ever.

I hope we stay married.

We should be married,

because there's a lot of love
between us.

When people are getting married,

and if they're ever asked for
any advice about marriage,

it's sort of,
you have to see it through.

You have to be committed to it,

because if you started out and
you thought it was worth it,

then it's probably
still worth it.


Maddy B!

Come on! Hurry up! Come on.

In my case, it really was,

and it's the third marriage
for both of us.


I think we're gonna make it
this time.

Of course, we're old people now,

where else would we go, right?

My son's
getting married Saturday.

- Congratulations, sir.
- Hey, thank you.

So, this is my-- this is my last dinner when he's really my son.

His last-- Last free man.
- That's right!

- I got 48 hours left.
- My-- My-- My baby

is officially flying the coop.

We have to do one shot. Tequila?
What do you want to do?

I'll do tequila.

- 2 tequilas. We shot it--
- Patron?

- Yeah.
- Yeah, okay.

I'm gonna miss you.
I feel like it's-- it's weird.

I got a little weepy
over the weekend.

My dad did this with me.

Where'd you guys do it?

It's really not smart

for me to give him
any advice about marriage.

But I remember my dad
doing that with me.

There was something
really important about it.

It was just my dad
and me and...

and, you know,
he sort of tried to give advice,

but it was very intimate.

I-- I do think, you know,
learn from my mistakes.


There's always a feeling
that when you get married

that all the things you did
before you were married,

- all the kindness is off.
- Right. Right.

You know, I can do anything--
the fuck I want.

You can take it out on somebody
and it doesn't matter.

You can't. I mean,
I learned that the hard way.

Cheers, dude!

No, this is a big one.

This is getting married,
cheers to that.

To a long and happy
and beautiful life,

because you really are
a beautiful son.

- Thank you. I appreciate that.
- Come on.


The fact that I've worn
women's clothing,

does that freak you out?


- It's just that it's--
- Not really.

It's an expression.

I don't--
It doesn't really bother me.

I mean, I'm used to it.

I like that you're different
than everybody else.

Everybody's the same, Dad.

How do you feel
that I painted my toenails

the color of my tuxedo?

You know, it's like,
I just laugh.

I just think,
"All right, it's you."

You seem to handle it
pretty well.

Have you ever had a pedicure?

- No.
- I highly recommend it.

- I'm not doing it.
- Oh, come on!

- Why?
- Dana wants me to get one.

Oh, they're great.
You put your...

put your feet
in the bubble sauce.

- She wants me to get a manicure.
- Oh, and they cut your nails.

- I get a manicure.
- Yeah, yeah.

Oh, it's great.

They massage your feet.

Where do you get your haircut,
like the marine training center?

Pretty-- Pretty short, man.

Yeah. No,
I like getting it short.

You know what?
We're gonna be really bad,

and then you have to cut us off,
all right?

- Right.
- 'Cause-- 'Cause--

I mean, he's young.

You probably do them
all the time,

but, you know, I'm an old guy.

So are you ready
for the big wedding?

- Should I show him?
- No.

- I should show Andrew.
- Andrew what?

- My nails.
- Yes! Oh, God.

So, we went-- Yesterday
we went to the, uh,

to get our mani/pedis
and look what Buzz did.

- Nice, huh?
- That beautiful or what?

I would call that
less mani and more...


More girly.

When I met him,
I had, I was

divorced twice.
He was divorced twice.

He had three kids.

The twins were, uh, his--
from wife number one.

Then he married
wife number two.

He had his third son, Caleb,

and they have
a very close relationship.

They started having
a very close relationship

when Caleb was about,
I would say, ten.

You know, they're my kids.
They're magnificent,

and they're all
totally different.

But, you know, I just,
I love being a dad.

Hi, Dad.

Zach, what's up?

Not much.

- Can you hear me?
- Yeah.

Can you hear me talking to you?
Or can you hear me on my phone?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Isn't this cool?


What do you think?
I'm talking into my wrist.


- Do you want one of these?
- No thanks.

All right, see you later.
Bye, bye.

- Bye.
- What do you think?

Pretty good.

Buzz is the father
that I wish I had had.

Buzz cares about his kids

beyond anything else.
He-- And he's--

He's a complete narcissist.

You probably know this
'cause you know him.

But Buzz is
a complete narcissist

unless his kids are involved.

Then he's all about his kids.

So Zach, are you excited
about the wedding or what?

- Very.
- You seem very excited.

And why?

We're gonna have
another Bissinger.

Dana Bissinger now, right?

With the family.

Zach, you're-- you're
kind of wonderful, you know.

You are. There's gonna be
another Bissinger.

His twins were premature.

One of them is going to be...

impaired forever.

One of them is completely,
fabulously successful

in our world.
He's a principal of a...

school in Haddonfield,
New Jersey. He's an amazing kid.

They're both amazing kids,
both the twins.

But Zach has brain damage

because he came out
of the chute... late.

You decide

to take Zach
on this road trip...

- Yes. Yes.
- ...around America.

What did you learn
about fatherhood

that maybe surprised you
when you went on this trip?

Well, I think it's-- it's--
it's about, um, acceptance.

It took me a long time.

Father's Day
is a very honest book.

Uh, coming to grips with a son

who is very, very different,

and there were moments it was
really hard for me to accept.

You know, I came from
a high-powered family.

I have dreams of ambition,

uh, for my kids, as we all do.

But once you get acceptance,

then you get appreciation
and then you get joy.

I think it's the best book
he's ever written.

Better than Friday Night Lights,

better than
A Prayer for the City,

the best book he's ever written.

What-- What did you--
what did you say about--

the nice thing
about a wedding is?

You see people you haven't seen
in a while?

- Yeah. Yeah.
- Is that what you said?

- Come on, Zach.
- Yep.

Come on. Come on.

Are you guys ready?


- You want me to hold it?
- No, I can do it.

All right.

I just want to say
I love my brother

and I love Dana,

and I'm very, very happy
they are married.

I will miss them, but I know...

That they love me.

...that-- that they love me

and will always take care of me.

If they don't,
I will stop texting them!

On that note,
thank you, good night,

have a good marriage.
I'll see you next year.

It was also my father,
of course,

who after my second marriage,

begged not to be invited to
a third if there was one.

And he and my mom

did pass away before I found

the meaning of marriage,
what it can be,

with the incredible Lisa.

So, I give a toast to you,
my darling.

Buzz is really a remarkable guy

who kind of does this
zig-zaggy path,

and it's kind of cool to watch,

it's kind of cool to see,

and it's kind of cool
to live through.

I'm so proud of both of you.

You're so beautiful.

He is my family.

He and his boys,
they're my family, and the dog.

I mean, that's who we are.

this is the way we do it.

I want to hear it, so you read.

- Okay.
- And when we come to notes and things that I want...

You want me to read it?
You want me to read it. Okay.

- All right. That's fine.
- Yeah.

- All right, Prologue, you ready?
- Yeah. Go.

"I'm at the Marriott Hotel
in Orlando giving the speech

to the sales force at Merck,

six in a row,
one after the other,

the same words and the same
message and the same title

and the same feigned enthusiasm

just like the hundreds of
other times I have given it

forward and backwards
across the country.

They're coming to listen
to the Bruce Jenner

who saved the United States
Olympic team

from abject disgrace
at the hands of the Soviet Union

in East Germany.

The Bruce Jenner
who literally overnight

became an American hero.

The Bruce Jenner
who was the essence

of the virile male athlete

and can screw
everything that moves

as the ultimate
female conquistador.

They don't know
that when I look in the mirror

I see something
entirely different,

a body
that I fundamentally loathe,

a beard that is
always noticeable

no matter how close the shave,

a penis that is useless
except for pissing in the woods,

a chest
that should have breasts,

a face with a jawline too sharp

and a forehead too high.

They don't know that
contrary to the image,

I've had sex with roughly
five women in my life,

three of them ex-wives."

God, did you waste yourself.


Waste yourself.

Damn it.

See, you would've just loved
to have been me at that time.

You would've been banging
everything there was.

The last fucking thing I have
is gender dysphoria.

You walking around as Olympic
champion in the decathlon.


You kiddin'?
Six-two, muscled out?


- Yeah, six-two. - I'd still be doing it.
- Yeah, you would just--

- Yeah. You'd still be out there.
- I wouldn't be fucking doing this book. I'd be getting laid.

I'm co-- In my next life
I'm coming back with you,

but none of this gender shit.


One would think that

being so close to somebody

who transitioned
from male to female,

and did it so publicly,

and did it so, kind of, really,
uh, in an orchestrated way,

and then for Buzz
to be in on it,

that it-- it would
influence him personally...

Let's do it!

...because of his interests in
cross dressing and stuff.

I mean there's a lot of
weird shit going on between us.

It's a kind of
interesting chemistry.

I'm not talking sexually,
but a chemistry of...

I've-- I've watched her
go through trans-- a very,

very radical transition,

and then I'm thinking in terms
of my own development

and-- and--
and where it's going,

and, you know, the--
the idea that

you need to be
your authentic self.

During the year,
I'll be hanging out

with other transgender women

and what impact will that have?

Will it... entice me even more?

I don't know.
I mean, I don't know.

There is nothing worse
than a blank page.

You write the beginning,
maybe it's artful,

maybe it's beautiful, but then,
what the fuck do I do?

There's no flow to it.
There is no narrative.

What's my next move?

How do I make it cohesive?
How do I make it coherent?

How do I make it narrative?
And I was stuck.

That fucking blank page,

and the deadline is increasing
and your heart is racing.

Will yourself,
because then you'll feel relief.

And once you feel relief,
you'll feel confidence.

I would die
to have Buzz as a teacher.

He'll be one of those guys,

he'll be one of those famous,
no-bullshit teachers

that kids absolutely
gravitate to.

Self-serving, self-serving,

who gives a shit?
Who gives a shit? It's boring.

Don't be boring.

And I think in the midst of
all his no-bullshit-talk,

he's on the right track.

You know, life is very complex,

and to try to sum up anything
with a cute little bowtie,

which most journalists do,
is bullshit.

He's a correct-no-bullshit,

um, a no-bullshitter,

whereas some fake
no-bullshit bullshitters,

he's-- he's--
I've always found him to be

an incredibly sane person.

He'll be a big hit at that.

Just, like,
in reading this draft,

your sentences are a lot, like,
not as tight...

- Right.
-, like, when you're,

obviously, the finished piece,

or, like, even the later drafts.

- Right. Good point.
- Um...

do you, like, focus more on,

like, if there's a-- a--
a sentence in your head

that you're about, like,
"Okay, I'm gonna get this out."

Do you care less about, like,
the wording here?

I mean, at this point,
I want it to be in English.


But I don't really-- I don't really give a shit about it.
I can tighten the sentence later.

Uh, I want the thought,
I want the flow.

If I'm in the--
if I'm in the moment,

if I'm in the flow, keep
the flow, keep the flow going.

Then it gets exciting,

'cause often you write the story
and you write it in chunks

and you'll say,
"Oh, fuck, there's my lead.

That's my lead.
That's really good.

I can see that.

I can see the story grow

if I use that lead."

And that's exciting.
And it may be buried.

It may be
at the end of the story.

It may be at the beginning
of a story.

Um, or it may be in the middle,

but that's-- that's your lead,

and now I-- I can see
the narrative take shape.

"I got it. I got it. I got it."

And that's fucking delicious.

I mean that's why we write.
That's fucking delicious.

There's nothing like it.

There's nothing like it.
It's not like making money.

It's not being like a fucking
lawyer. There's nothing like it.

That is really exciting,

and that's why you should be
taking this course

and all courses
if you love to write.

Buzz won the Pulitzer in 1987

on a series about the courts.

The Pulitzer represents
really the acme,

the zenith of professional
achievement in journalism.

He always was a good writer.

I remember us doing a paper
on GM at one point.

And he got a hold of--

He-- He-- He came this close
to going to the annual meeting.

He got an aunt who had a proxy

and he was gonna go.

You know he would really go
in depth in-- into things.

And it's kind of what's
wonderful about his writing now

is that you get that feeling
from him

that he has really, really
given it a lot of thought.

But I think he also tends to,

romanticize a lot of the--
a lot of the past.

Many writers, once
they're done with the subject,

they move on.

After Friday Night Lights,

Buzz just couldn't turn his back

on-- on these people whose lives

became in-- intertwined
with-- with his own.

"It was the watermelon feed,

the moment in August
where all the boosters

and fans came together.

One-by-one they were announced,

and then came Boobie."

"He acknowledged the loud
applause of the crowd

crowd like a prom queen
or an Academy Award winner

having the first of what
would undoubtedly be

a lifetime of moments
such as these.

Exuberant chants of 'Boobie'
echoed through the room

and the world belonged to him.

Why are the scores of
Permian games so lopsided,

Boobie himself
had posed the question one day?

Because they only have
one Boobie."

"And in two days when Permian
went up north to Amarillo

for a preseason scrimmage
against the Palo Duro Dons,

people would get
their first real taste

of what he was going to do,

the season when he and he alone

was the shining star
of the Permian Panthers."

You're listening to KXWT

FM Ninety-One point Three,
West Texas Public Radio.

My name is Lena Straub
and I'm here today

with H.G. Bissinger

to talk about
the 25th anniversary

of his controversial book,
Friday Night Lights.

Mr. Bissinger, welcome.

Well, thank you.

You received a lot of hate mail,
as I understand,

after that.

You know, I received a certain
amount of hate or anger.

You know, it all was
pretty much from people,

uh, in Odessa. They-- They--
They felt betrayed.

They felt the portrayal...

Basically, it seems to me that
their argument is

is that everything in the book
was true,

uh, but it happens other places
and it was a matter of emphasis.

And all I can say is,
25 years later,

I'm not here to engage
in an argument.

What happened at, uh, Permian,

although you can identify
with it,

a lot of towns and places
are similar,

the Permian program was insane.

You know, when you're spending
more on athletic tape

for the football program

than you are on books
for the English department

that the chairman wants,
that's insane.

When the use of the "N" word
is uttered to me directly

at least a dozen times

and some of it was directed

at an 18-year-old
African American kid

whose misfortune was
to get hurt before the season,

that's insane.

I'm not here
to seek forgiveness.

They should be forgiving
Boobie Miles,

or he should be forgiving them.

They should be apologizing
to him

for what they did.

Hi, we're here
to do a media interview

with an inmate.

Reminds me of Cool Hand Luke.

- Yo!

They sent the wrong person
at first.


They sent the wrong person!

It was Andre Davis.

- You live, man!
- What's going on?

- You live.
- Yeah.

- I do.
- You live.

- Lookin' good.
- Yeah, buffin' out.


- You all right?
- Yeah. Good, man.

Good, buddy.

So, let's, uh...

How long-- How long
have you been in here?

- Since two-thousand--
- Two and a half years.

How's it been here?

Ah, it's okay.

It's okay, man.
I mean, you know,

anything is better than
being locked up, but hey.

And I had to--
I came to grips of it's not--

- it's nobody's fault but mine.
- Mm-hmm.

Do you feel cheated?
Do you feel robbed?

I mean do you-- Or--
Or have you let it go?

I don't want to put words
in your mouth.

Uh, I-- I feel-- I feel, uh...

I feel robbed of my education.

- Your education.
- Yeah.

- 'Cause they didn't give a shit, did they?

- Yeah, they didn't care.
- They didn't care.

As long as I--
As long as I could play,

I could get A's.

When you get hurt,
they don't care no more.

Weren't you-- Then you were
flunking everything.

Yes, I was flunking everything.

I had to literally,
in order for me to graduate,

when I started, when I--
I got hurt,

I got my report card,

man, I had fifties and sixties.

You understand what I'm saying?

After getting what,
eighties and nineties?

After getting eighties
and nineties, man.

And you were getting
the answers.

Weren't you basically
getting the answers to tests?

That's what you told me.

They'd give the answers.

I'd get the test before the day.

I'd get the answers
and the test.

I used to be
upset about all that,

But, ah, forget it.

Well, tell-- In what way?

Uh, you know,
you're Boobie Miles.

You know, just not being the...

what I feel like
I should have been.

- You understand what I'm saying?
- Mm-hmm.

You know, I feel like every time
somebody mentions me

that they should see
something better.

That you should have been
something better?

- Right.
- Do you think that, too?


You know, there's always that
woulda, coulda, if.

You know what I'm saying?

- I think I do.
- But it doesn't--

It doesn't haunt me
as bad as it used to.

- It doesn't.
- Used to.

I tell you the truth, man, I...

I f-- I feel good about myself

- even though I'm in the...
- Hmm?

...crazy environment,
messed up environment.

- Right.
- But...

I felt like if it didn't, some--

something like this
didn't happen, I--

I might be dead somewhere, man.

- It was that bad?
- Yeah.

And were you packing? Were you--

Of course.

No, I was...
you know, I was...

selling shit.

Even when I gave you
that money?

- Yeah.
- You were selling stuff?

- Yeah.
- Drugs?

- Yeah.
- Wh--what, cocaine?

Or whatever you could
get your hands on?

Weed, ecstasy, cocaine...

Why were you doing that when
you had all that money, man?

I don't know, Buzz.
I was looking for attention.

I had people around me.

I had...

That's the most--
That's the most--

the smartest thing you've ever
said to me, that you recognize.

Yeah. I had--

- You wanted the attention.
- Yeah, I had--

- Kinda like playing football.
- Right.

- You liked-- you liked that.
- Right. Right.

You like the attention.
You like being the man.


I had that all.
As long as I had that...

I had friends.

I really wish
you weren't in here.

Yeah, I know, Buzz, man.

I love you, man. You take care.

I love you, too.
We'll be in touch.

- But you seem good. You do.
- All right.

All right, man, I love you.

I love you, too.

- Take it easy. All right.
- All right.

Let's see
what the Panthers call out

with the time-out.

Mike Winchell gives it back
to James Miles.

Miles follows his blocker.

Miles, a first down
and a little bit more!

They won't quit.
They never quit.

Miles at the first down
at the thirty-yard line.

Down at the twenty-five.
First down!

I've never seen
anything like it.

Miles will
have the penetration,

will have it to the ten,
will have it to the five.

That's a MOJO touchdown!

He'll have it all the way!

Oh, running room.
That's the MOJO touchdown!

The MOJO, the MOJO, the MOJO.

James Miles!

I'm here
because it's the 25th...

um, anniversary of the book,

and so we've put out
a new edition

and, um,

in that edition
is a new afterword

in which I've updated the lives

of the players.

Do you know where Boobie is now?

- Do they know?
- Jail.

Yeah, in prison. Yeah.

I went and saw him in prison.
It was really hard.

He's had a tough life.

He was very honest
about himself,

about what he did right,
what he did wrong in life,

and how he really hopes that

no one ever repeats
what happened to him.

He talks about that a lot,

that he's... a role model
in a sense

for what shouldn't happen,

because he got no education.


I don't mean to sound
like a mean 14-year-old girl,

but can you explain your t--
style to me?

Would you?

My dress?


I know it's--
it's not typical of west Texas,

but the thing about dressing,

the thing about being yourself
is you gotta be yourself, right?

You can't--
You can't, uh...

dress or live according to what
you think others want.

You should never, ever do that

and I did that for a long time.

All right, guys.
One, two, three.

How do you stop yourself

from going stark raving mad,

Because my life is good.

I've accomplished a lot
in my life.

I have wonderful children.

I have work.
I have a beautiful home.

I have people's adulation
every day,

congratulating me on the games
some thirty years later.

Bruce Jenner!

But all that...

that's good about your life,
ultimately is not enough, is it?

Because you're not being
yourself, right?

Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.

- It is not enough.
- It is not enough.

And it will never be enough,
will it?


I eventually, someday, get peace

in my soul.

Can you imagine
Buzz coming to you

and saying
he's gonna transition?

We-- We've had talks about--

Wh-- what do you mean
can I imagine?

Of course, we've discussed this.

You know, there are
a lot of-- a lot of men

who are-- are cross-dressers.

You know.

You sort of
said that once, that you...

That wha-- That what?

You're always pushing me

into these sexual realms
that are not true.

- Okay.
- What did I say?

What did you say?

That I wanted to be a woman?

I thought that you said
that you wanted--

that you thought you might want
to be a woman.

Well, I wanted to be Derek Jeter, too.
That didn't happen. And I want to be tall.

I wanted you to be Derek Jeter.

- Will you just for once...
- That was good.

Ah, that's it.

Doesn't that make you
feel better?

Yeah, it's like-- Yeah.

It makes me feel better.

We don't have sex together

And, um, that's okay with me.

We both kind of gave up,

and I think you just really
didn't wanna have sex anymore.

I just don't think you cared.

No, it's true, I didn't.

- Well...
- I still don't.

What about having sex
because of love?

I'm game. I mean, I'm game.

For love? No, I'm too squeamish.

Yeah, you get squeamish
about it.

You know the--
the strangest outgrowth,

it was on September 11th,

We were in bed and making love
and my first wife called

and said you got to turn on
the television

and that was that.

I guess we turned on
the television

and never quite recovered.

So, we hadn't had sex for
a long time and, you know,

it's hard.

I-- I read recently, um,

an essay by the guy
who edits "Modern Love"

in the New York Times.

And he kind of--

he put people who are having
modern love problems

into categories and
I am in a cat--

Buzz and I are in a category
and that category is

accepting that we have
a very good relationship,

but understanding
that it lacks certain things,

and one of those things
is a sexual relationship.

Showtime. Let's go.

"Like me, Buzz is different,

with a legendary leather fetish
that he once wrote about for GQ

in a somewhat legendary story.

As I later found out,
he wears it all the time,

looking like a cross
between a minor mobster

and Joan Jett and Sid Vicious,

albeit with a Pulitzer Prize.

At a certain point,
one of the tabloids

will simply refer to him
as the Leatherman.

Skull rings cover the fingers
on both hands

and then he starts wearing
bright red nail polish.

I like that about Buzz.
I like that a lot."

That's the best part
of the book, actually.

Best part of the book, yeah.

You finally get to describe

Pretty well, I might say.

Yeah, uh, perfectly.

"Even--" Wait, this is good.

"Even if I worry sometimes
that he's a little unbalanced."

A little?

A little unbalanced.

Yeah, right, a little.

The pieces are in place--

And a little unbalanced
just like me.

All right, that's good,
that's good.


We have a lot in common.

That's good. That's good.


I purchased my first pair
of leather pants here.

I was thinking about it,
like 1993 or '94.

That's kind of a nice, uh...
it's different.

I bought this
the last time I was here.

It's fucking great.
I never wear it.

I should though. It's great.
I want to see what size this is.

Of course, I look like
a member of the fucking SS,

but that's all right.

I've bought stuff like this.

I don't know if I've bought
stuff like that here.

All these boots I've had.

It's-- It's all depravation.

I mean, you know,
you're a slave,

so you can't... You breathe,
but your mouth isn't closed.

Your breathing's gonna be hard.

It's through the-- It's cool.
I mean, I get off on it.

We'll go downstairs.

These are pretty soft. That's
much harder. That's gonna hurt.

This is neoprene. Pretty neat.

I didn't wear a stitch of
leather until I was divorced

for the second time,
which would have been,

I don't know, '92, '93. So,
how old would I have been, 40?

I bought a leather jacket
with a dominatrix

that I was, uh, I was seeing.

When I was at the Inquirer
in the mid-eighties,

I answered an ad somewhere
and went to New York

and... you know,
and saw some dominatrix.

It only lasted an hour.

I just did it once,

but then when I was breaking up
from my, uh, second marriage,

I got into it pretty heavily.

I've had the-- I've bought the--

I don't know why
I'm telling you all this.

I had that. I bought that here.

These are sounding devices.

- What does that mean?
- They go into your cock.

these are standard cock rings.

You just put them
around your cock.

You can wear them
whenever you want.

Gets intense.

I don't know what that is.

Looks like fun though.

I don't know where it opens.

I don't know if it opens
in the top.

You lie in the cage

until your master or dominatrix
lets you out.

Trust me, I'm not the only one
who's into this.

If you want to de--
deconstruct S&M, it's difficult,

because I get it--
I get it as, um,

in terms of power.

The power equation
in a sexual relationship

is always, uh,
at the forefront, I think,

so-- so that the--
the shifting in power,

um, and the heightening of power
and submissiveness,

that can be really sexy,
can be super sexy.

Do you--
What do you have for gloves?

These are a little tight.

Yeah, anything thin?

These are much nicer.

Yeah, they are much nicer,
but you only have them in large?

These are not bad, actually.
Are they small?

All right, they're good. I'm
gonna take these. These I like.

- You want a bag?
- Nah, it's okay.

Thanks, man.

So, you know, look,

I-- I was a sexual adventurer.

I mean, I'm good looking.

I mean, I was really
good looking when I was younger,

if I may say.

And, um, and so I could,
you know, just call the shots

whenever I wanted to have sex
pretty much.

And so I did it all the time

and I did all sorts of stuff
with girls, with boys,

with men, with women, you know.

Not-- Not young girls,
not young boys,

but, um, you know, my age.
But, at any rate, um,

so, I was...

attracted to him, I think,

because I had done
all that stuff and, uh,

he hadn't. He'd been totally
buttoned down his whole life.

Even when he was being bad,
he was buttoned down.

She had been
what I wanted to be.

I mean, as a teenager,
she had been out there.

She had had a lot of fun.
She slept with a lot of people.

She had had her fill.

Sexuality, I mean, it's--
it's a theme, right,

through all of this in that, um,

Buzz's sexuality is-- is he...

interested in men? Is he
interested in cross-dressing?

Is he interested in...

is he heterosexual,
but interested in S&M?

It's-- It's--
It's hard to say. Um...

I think he's heterosexual, but
I think he's onanistic actually.

I think that he's...

And-- And-- And who knows
what the roots of that are.

My family hated dogs.

I was so repressed
as a child and teenager.

You knew it. You saw it.
I was scared of everything.

But that repression damaged me.

I should have explored. I
should've been true to myself.

"A fraud when it came to being
my authentic self,

public figure,
and private shadow."

Love that!

Oh, good.
I mean, that is good to hear.

- 'Cause...
- Yeah.

That took a long time to write,
so I'm glad I got it right.

Yeah. I like that.
"Public figure, private shadow."

- Good. Good.
- Yeah.

Good father
to my step-children--

Thank God I finally found
something in this, Buzz.

Yeah, see on page 15
it actually says--

besides me rewriting everything.

- So, you fucking like something.
- Yeah, I know.

That's really nice. Really makes
me feel good. Thanks a lot.

Yeah. No, I like that.
"Public figure, private shadow."

I don't--
Yeah, let's see, one, two,

that's five words
out of about five thousand.

- Yeah, yeah, so far so good.
- It's a really good deal.

I-- I think that's great.

- It's my book.
- Yeah, great. It's terrific.

Is there a way
to change that around

from public figure
to private shadow to now?


You're a public figure,

but you're not any longer
a private shadow.

I'm trying to think of how
we could play on words on that.

What-- You like--
So, in other words,

the only five words that you
like that I've written,

you want to change?

No, I'm leaving this here.

- But later on...
- All right, we'll look at that.

- you say...
- I'll look at that.

- Okay. All right.
- It may have changed around.

- You know, public figure...
- Okay. I get it.

That's-- That's cool.

Just trying to help you out,

I'll tell people,
"Well, he actually wrote

one line himself."
No, I'm kidding.

Oh, Buzz, don't go there.

- It's your book!
- Don't even--

If your--
My name ain't on the cover--

Don't-- Don't even go--

- It's-- It's your book.
- Don't even go there.

When people ask me,
it's your book.

- Yeah.
- It is your book.

I know it's my book.
You're damn right.

That's why I read each page
like twice.

There you are.

- How are you?
- What's up!

- Good to see you. How are you?
- Nice to see you.

Good. How are you?

I'm good.

Was the traffic busy?

Well, they closed off Fifth.

Fifth? Goodness.

Killer. This is fucking killer.

It's all great.
That's the problem.

Oh, God, you're killing me.

And it's your size.

It's gorgeous. It's really nice.

You couldn't live in that house
and not be aware that

something was afoot.

Every closet was full
to the brim of carcasses.

This is great.

- This is amazing.
- Yeah, that's great.

It's akin to, you know, finding,
you know, your dad's Playboy.

Only you would find, you know,
a leather G-string.

The entire house, every closet

that was not claimed by me

as like my little closet
with my few rags,

was filled to overflowing
with his leatherwear goods.

I mean you open it--
Clearly, I mean,

you would open up a drawer

in a, you know,
like in a sideboard

in the fucking dining room

and it would be
filled with leather gloves.

My mother, you know,
wore leather gloves

and, you know,
I would go in later in life

and put them on and...

and wear them,
but there was a f--

There was a, you know,
an S&M fixation.

These were- These were--

you know, you love your mother
and you hate your mother

and you fear your mother.

And, obviously, the leather
became very powerful,

um, you know, sexually.

I love those!

Yeah, they're pretty cool.

What do you think?

Pretty great. How much is this?

This one is close to six,
I think.

People think he's wealthy.

He thinks he's wealthy.
He goes out and spends money.

He's not that weal--
I mean, look, relatively, yeah.

We-- We've got enough money
for the rest of our lives but...

but not if you spend money
the way he spends it.

Card services.

I'm about to make a charge
of around 20-thousand dollars

and I wanted to let you know
so it can go through.

My brother said,

"Do you ever worry
that you're like him?"

And I was like,
shit, I don't know.

I don't think so.

I don't have any, uh...

I don't have any of the same
predilections that he does.

Well, why can't you just
get women's clothing

that's not so fucking expensive?

That's what I want to know.

Because I go in these stores
and a mania overcomes me,

and I see this stuff
and to me it's beautiful

and luxurious, and I guess
I like the attention,

and I look really good in it.

You know,
I spent much of my life not thinking I looked good.

I grew up most of my life
thinking I was fucking ugly.

You know, to get to the
psychological underpinnings

of why he is--
he behaves the way he does,

why he has these, um,
fetishes and...


compulsions, I mean,
the-- the clothing,

the buying of the clothing,
it's still a compulsion.

Um, like, why does he do it?

And what-- wh--
what does he gain from it?

I mean, from-- What makes
him happy, truly?

Why does that make him happy?
I don't know.

I mean, I don't know if he's
ever examined this

with a psychiatrist adequately.

"I seek out every opportunity
I can to cross-dress.

It is a temporary fix

like it is always
a temporary fix.

You feel a rush of adrenaline

and then you feel as sad
and deflated as ever,

play acting
when you don't want to play

and you don't want to act

But something is still better
than nothing."

I like dressing
in women's clothing

from time to time.

It really excites me sexually.

Now, where it comes from,
why I like it,

I-- I don't know. But for me,
it's-- it's a sexual charge.

I get a sexual rush.

There's a male component,

there-- there's an attraction
to a female component.

There's an S&M component.

But, for me,
it's all sexually charged.

"It is incredibly exciting.

The pulse quickens.
The heartbeat pumps.

A combination of giddiness
and confidence

and daring the world.

Going back so many years
to the age of ten,

I am still trying
to figure out why."

Hello? Hello?

- Hello Buzz!
- Hey! How are you?

Good, how are you, man?

I'm good, I'm good.

Very nice to meet you.

How many looks
did you bring, Buzz?

Oh, God.
I brought about six, seven.

I mean, I've got all sorts
of different things going.


Now you want a picture first
of me regular,

- which would be this?
- I think we shoot it afterwards

or something.
But I already like that.

But look, I set up this silver
thing. Here, I'll show you.


Because you said you have
a lot of leather stuff.

I do have a lot of leather.

So, I think this silver thing
could be kind of cool, you know.

That's good.
All right.

Um, you try it out. You know,
you get into some looks.

We try it out. We just shoot,
like, full length,

- crop, whatever.
- Sure.

- I like all the jewelry you're wearing already.
- Okay

And, like we'll just fuck around
a little bit.

- Have some fun.
- All right. Good. Good - It's cool?

Yeah, sometimes I wear jewelry,
but I wear a lot of leather gloves,

- so I'll be wearing those, too.
- Leather gloves is cool, too.

Trust me, if I didn't do it now,

I'd be fucking going crazy.
I have to do it.

Okay, just have a seat
here for now, Buzz.

Okay, Buzz.

Come back with your head.

Good, Buzz.

"What is the driving force
that makes me do this

beyond simply
getting away with it?

Am I truly gender dysphoric?

Is this my
therapeutic diagnosis?

Am I maybe just a cross-dresser
deriving some sexual high?

Sometimes I wonder if dressing
up is like the equivalent

of having sex with myself,

male and female
at the same time."

Real good. Real good.

To me,
the gender part is irrelevant.

I don't know what it means
to be a man.

I don't know what it means
to be a woman.

I just step into whatever
the fuck I want to step into,

because, for me, it's all about
sexual expression.

I feel like I'm
the Angelina Jolie

of cross-dressing journalists.

I think that
it's sexually charged,

you know, it's cross-dressing.

It's sort of narcissistic
and onanistic

and it doesn't have anything
to do with, you know,

having sex with somebody else

or being a woman,
or anything like that.

It's just sort of you're all--
you're all-purpose, you know,

you're all-encompassing.

He really pulled out the stops.

And, uh, we had
a little difficulty about it.

The difficulty had to do with

his inability to be discerning

about those photographs
and to decide

this is-- this is flattering
and this isn't.

I know that I'm 60 years old.

I mean, I don't look like
fucking Kylie Jenner

and I don't fucking look like
Angelina Jolie,

but in some of them
I look really cool.

I'm not defensive about them.
And, you know, Lisa's saying,

"Well, get rid of the ones
in the cape,

and look at this,
if you crop the face."

Well, they're not gonna fuckin'
crop the face.

I mean this is me. Why couldn't
she just fuckin' accept it?

Why couldn't she say,
"I love them"?

Because that's not her,

and then she just doesn't
fucking leave it alone.

I'm not mad at him
or upset with him

for wanting to do
all this stuff.

I'm just saying,
"Just don't look like a--

just don't look like a--
Look your best,

you know,
look your most beautiful,

your most vibrant,
your most vital.

If-- Even if you're wearing
a cape and stilettos,

fuckin' look good when you're
doing it, you know."

I mean, that's it!

I am who I am.

Maybe I like women,
maybe I like men,

maybe I don't like any of them.

Maybe I really want
to fuck myself.

I sometimes think
that's what it is.

I'm completely onanistic.

When I have fantasies,

and the fantasies are like
fucking someone just like me.

Who the fuck knows?

I can't fuckin' think
about it anymore.

But I also can't be totally
inside a fuckin' box

and Lisa's very tolerant.

I mean, you know,
think about it.

Most wives would say,
"What the fuck is this?"

It's fun.
It's a fucking German magazine.

Is it gonna come over here?
I don't give a shit.

I don't!

But, you know, this is
my moment, you know, in the sun.


it's not that easy to ha--
to be

in a relationship with
a cross-dressing exhibitionist.

I mean, it's not impossible,

and it's, you know, I mean,

it's even interesting,
and I love him.

I will...




like a woman.

- Okay?
- Mm-hmm.

It's not gonna happen.

All right.

I got a past.

- Will I ever--
- Wait, you got a what?

- I'm sorry.
- A past.

- Okay. All right.
- Okay?

Uh, I didn't grow up
with all the experiences

that women have.


will always be
and feel like a trans woman.

Now you know the trans community
doesn't like

when people say that, right?

Yeah, that's okay.
I don't really care.

- You don't care.
- These are my feelings.

- Well, you-- You're--
- Not the community's feelings.

You happen to be realistic,

- Yeah, um...
- That's the problem.

- You're being realistic.
- Yeah, I know, that's--

This is how I feel.
This is my book.

It's not
the trans community's book.

Well, it's my book, too.

No, it's--

Is it any of your books?

Is it any of you--
any of your guys' books?


and so I don't think I'll ever
get to the point



am totally...

female. Why? Because Bruce
still lives inside.


Caitlyn is living this life.
Bruce lives inside.

And my experiences will be
different than normal women.

The big story
on Action News Tonight

is Caitlyn Jenner
in Philadelphia tonight

on the campus of
the University of Pennsylvania.

We love you, Caitlyn!

Caitlyn Jenner has her fans

at the University
of Pennsylvania.

Some thirteen hundred of them,
mostly students,

who packed into
Irvine Auditorium.

They waited in lines
on this cold, brisk night

that snaked
around the building.

Caitlyn, you want
some nuts? You want anything?


That's been my problem
all my life.


Uh, hi Buzz. Hi, Caitlyn.
Uh, I'm Anthony.

First of all,
I want to thank you for coming.

I really appreciate
you being here.

You've been inspiring so far.

So, I basically want to
touch on the fact that,

you know, everyone's coming out
experience is different,

as you touched on,
and it's rarely easy.

Now, uh, I came out to my dad
as a teenager

and it was one of
the hardest things

that I had to do in my life.

And I will never forget
his response.

He looked at me, teary eyed,
and he said, "Congratulations".

Now, Caitlyn,
you came out to your mom

on the first episode
of I Am Cait.

I guess I just want to know,

how has your relationship
progressed since?

Um, and if you can share
a moment with her,

it would mean a lot to me.

My mom
was the last one I told.

Her first reaction was,

"Oh my, God.
What did I do wrong?"

And I go, "Mom,

you didn't do anything wrong,

I said, '"To be honest with you,

after I tell you
all these things,

and the secrets,
and my heart is open,"

I said, "we can probably have
a better relationship

than we had before."

And, you know what? For the last
nine months, we have.

The problem I have in that is...

my father.

Strong guy...

But never had the opportunity
to talk to him about it.

That'll always haunt me.

Um, but I'm sure he's looking
down in heaven right now

and saying, "You know what?

You're doing a good job.

You're making a difference."

And that's what I'm trying
to do.

Thank you.

"Taking all the precautions
I could to avoid detection.

I'm walking with the aid
of a nurse,

three or four steps
to a waiting car when--"

One car, one step.

- The car was--
- One step, right?

Yeah, one step.

To a waiting car.

"...when click, click, click."

I never saw the guys.

Did you hear it?

- Never--
- So, you didn't know?

We didn't know
until the next day.

Okay, right. That's cool. Right.

- Yeah.
- Okay.

"I'm driving in my car
24 hours later

when the phone rings. It is
Harvey..." What is it, Levin?

- Levin.
- "...of TMZ,

The notorious gossip channel
and website

that revels
in destroying others.

I pull off
to the side of the road.

'Did you just have
a tracheal shave?'

I am flustered.

I say something
I will always regret.

'I just don't like
my Adam's apple'.

I've just confirmed that
I did have a procedure done,

a procedure that
will also confirm

that I am likely--
that I am in the likely process

of transitioning into a woman.

'Harvey, don't do this to me.'

He says nothing.

I go home that night.

I try to sleep but wake up
in the small hours,

feeling more alone than ever.

The same thought goes through me
over and over.

'You keep a gun in the house,
why not use it?'"

You don't have to deal
with any of this shit.

Just take yourself out.
It's the easy way out,

you know? And seriously thought,
like, that is an option.

And I'm walking
up and down the hall

and I'm thinking...

...uh, you know,
that's, like, so stupid.

I could really see
how trans people

could be driven to that.


Uh, I could never
do that to myself,

but even more importantly,

to my family.

What a horrible way
to end my story.

First of all,
I couldn't do that to my kids.

Probably couldn't do it
to myself either.

But I don't want my story
to end that way.

It's just not the way
I want to end my story.

Although, I think that's
a good way to end this story,

- so why don't we, uh...
- Want my story to end this way.

- Why don't we go to the audience?
- All right, hit me up!

Hi. Um, my name is Sophia,

and my question
is a little bit political,

so, sorry!

Um, but you have done
a lot to raise awareness

in the trans community,

and you have also said that you
support the Republican Party

and that you're a Conservative.

And my question was just,

do you feel like they can
really champion your cause

or do you now want to be
a Democrat

and join us?

Oh, God, here we go.

Well, I-- You know.

Let's head into the polit--

You know,
I have gotten more flack

for being
a conservative Republican

than I have for being trans.

Okay, trans is like nothing.


I know

that the Democrats are better
when it comes to trans issues,

okay? I get that.


I understand that
for the entire LGBT community.

But the Republicans
need some work

and it's good if they have
an ally,

okay, that I can go in and help
them understand these issues.

It's L-G...

- T-B-Q?

Uh, L-G-B-T.
B-T, not T-B.

Still we want to go, L-B-G-T.



- What don't we just--
- Or what? It just...

- Let's just do...
- We'll just ask Nick some point.


Yeah, you're... Yeah.

- What does that mean, L-G-B-T-Q?
- Yeah, we won't-- we won't--

It's ridiculous.

- Yeah, I know.
- What is the Q?

Uh, queer. Uh, gender queer.

- It's confusing.
- What about L-M-N-O-P?

- I don't know yet.
- Yeah.

Q-R-S-T? That's horrible.

I never wanna be that.

Because you change gender,

I don't think it means
you change your core beliefs,

whatever they may be.

And whether we're Republican
or Democrat,

these are beliefs
that you've had

and I think that this assumption
that you're going to think

a certain way
or be a certain way

because you've changed gender

is not really, uh, the case.
But you can't talk any more.

We have to take
another question.

Yeah, just briefly,
to be honest with you,

I still do so many of
the things I used to do.

Okay, Caitlyn does them.

There is a transgendered
pilots association worldwide

with a big 93 members!


Of all working corporate pilots,

all professional pilots,
all trans.

I didn't know any of this
until just like a month ago.

And then, they were having
their annual convention out

in Palm Springs, so of course,
I fly out to Palm Springs.

Tell me when you're done.

I still fool around and race
cars and do all that stuff.

Why not? Girls can do that too,

Why should I miss out
on all the fun stuff,

- you know?
- Caitlyn, next question!

One second, Buzz.
I'll get right with you.


We're like a fuckin'
married couple.

Jesus, we could never
be married, Buzz.

- Don't even think about it.
- Oh, God!

- Okay?
- That's like the worst nightmare

- I've ever had.
- Don't even think about it Buzz!

Worst nightmare I've
ever fucking had. All right.

You didn't turn that back on,
did you?

I put that thing on

so I can, like, actually talk.

I'm pretty quick at this.

No, you're not.

I've only been doing it
for forty fucking years.

- Yeah, right. Oh, big deal.
- You-- You-- You--

What do you mean, big deal?
All you talk about is

- the fucking decathlon for 12.
- Just put the damn thing down.

I've done it fucking more
than three times.

I actually know
what I'm fuckin' doing.

- All right.
- Put the damn thing down. God!

No, I mean, the book's hard
because it's not my book.

I mean, I'm a shill
and I'm a good one.

It's just hard.
It's just a weird relationship

when you really have no control.
But I knew that.

It's been hard emotionally,

I don't know
if it was good for me.

But I spend so much
fucking money

and I needed the fuckin' money.

I mean, I'm-- I'm--
I'm fucked up.

Did you ever see that
movie with, uh, Tom Courtney?

Where he was in a play
and he dressed up.

It's called the, um,

I'm gonna say The Dresser.
It is called The Dresser.

I sometimes feel like that.

I wear this costume.

I'm not sure why I wear it.

I always want to wear
more of it, you know.

I keep pushing it.

And then I get home
and I take it off.

But I don't want to take it off.

But I do.

"Sometimes I just want to
literally rip the skin off me.

Get out of this
ridiculous costume

of flesh and bone and blood
that never fit me.

Being Bruce is killing me.

Becoming the woman inside me
will kill me."

I don't know. Maybe it has to do
with Caitlyn Jenner.

I don't really fucking know.

Am I sort of projecting and
saying, "Well, you know,

if I became a woman, would that
be the answer to my problems?"

And I don't think it would be.

I don't know what
the fuckin' answer is.

You-- You-- You were
talking in your texts about

fantasies. Can I ask you?
What are the fantasies?

I mean, they're all
dominatrix fantasies,

dominating and being dominated.

You know,
they're all deep S&M fantasies.

It just never goes away.

It's been like that for
fucking close to fifty years.

When I'm wearing leather
it's all S&M.

Dominatrix are all in leather.

They're soaked in leather.
Is that really what I wanna be?

Maybe that's
my ultimate fantasy,

to be one of the women
that I fantasize over.

Fantasies are fucking raging.

They just don't go away.

It's like going mad.

It's a very difficult thing
for a lot of people to do,

is basically be happy.

- But you said--
- Wake up in the morning

with a smile on your face,

loving yourself,

not lying, being authentic to
everybody else around you.

It's not easy to do.

- Not easy to do.
- Well, you said something to me

that inspired me.
I mean, you know,

of course, if I get divorced,
they'll fucking sue you, but...

- Yeah. I'm sorry.
- Um, you said

you know, "I don't want to die

not having lived
my authentic self."

And that, for better or worse,

- has inspired me to--
- I don't want any regrets.

- Yeah. You know that.
- 'Cause I would have

tremendous regrets. This is
something I've lived with,

a certain sexual appetite, for,

I don't know,
55 years of my life.

You hope it goes away.
It's just a phase.

It goes in. It goes out.

But it never goes away.

- Yeah, it never goes away.
- No.

so how am I gonna deal with it?

That's what I grapple with.

Well, why did we
come all the way out here?

Well, because we wanted
to go for a nice walk

without a bunch of cars
on the road.

Well, you knew
it was gonna be raining.

I didn't know! It's not raining
as hard as it was at our house.

You know,
marriage is companionship,

domesticity in the best way,

taking care of one another,

but marriage is not
particularly exciting.

Let's face it. It's not.

I mean, I know what I should do
and I-- I think I'll do it.

- I dunno.
- What should you do?

You know, I should love my wife
and honor my wife

and be loyal to my wife,
who I love.

That's what I should do.

now we have to rappel up.

Well, this was a great idea.

I'm sorry.
It wasn't a great idea.

We drove an hour
to walk two minutes.

Fifteen minutes!

It wasn't.
Just a little two minutes...

It was 15 minutes.

- All right?
- Okay, you have to push me up.

No, no, no, not that way.
Let's see.

I think I need this thing.

Which way?

You all right?

Giggy, can you get up, honey?

Oh, good boy, Beaks.

Good boy, Beaks. Come on, baby.
Come on.

You can do it, Beak. If I can do it, you can do it.
- Come on, Beaks.

Come on, little guy. Up.

Here, I'll help you.

Hold on.

Can you help pull me up?

Okay. Now hold on, hold on.

Come on, put your feet up,
little guy.

You ready?


- Okay, Dad, now.
- Don't be a schlep.

Hold on.

- Ay!
- Thank you.

I almost pulled you down.

Let's go, everybody. Come on.

Come on, Casey.

- What will you do?
- I don't know.

I hope that I'll do that,
but it's just, you know,

it's very easier said than done.

Well, what can I say?

Are you coming or not?

Come on.

That's me in a, uh,
body bag.

Oh, mistress.

I like--
I like the depri-- deprivation.

You know, I--
I like the touch of her gloves.

I like the smell of her gloves.
I like...

her gloves are into my mouth.

I complete-- I can't move.

I'm encased in leather,
and I like the subservience.

I like taking orders.
I like pleasing.

I think it's all the things that
I tried to do with my mother.

You know, that makes
psychological sense to me.

And the only reason I'm really
talking about this is because

we all have different

and we're all really scared
of expressing them,

and I sometimes think that the
issue of gender and sexuality,

however you want to
talk about it,

has become the provenance only
of transgender men and women.

Well, that's not-- that's wrong.

You know,
heterosexual people are people.

Forget the label.
Deal with it all the time.

And this is an aspect
of my sexuality

that is important to me.

You know,
I tried endlessly to be

married, monogamous,

block it out, but, you know,
you're not gonna get rid of it.

I-- I did not want to die

without having explored
what is a core sexuality.

Do you and your mistress
have sex?

No. Uh-uh. Never.

That would-- That would ruin it.

There's no fucking,
but there's intimacy.

This has been a part of my life
one way or another

for 56 years.

That's the equivalent

of my being
a transgender man or woman.

This is--
This is embedded within my soul.

My problem is he's been lying.

- So what-- You know...
- I wish he didn't lie. - I've been most--

- And I catch him in a lie--
- I've been more honest

- than most.
- You're so bad at lying.

- That's his problem.
- I've been more honest than most.

- He's so easy to catch.
- So what do you fucking ask for

if you know the fucking answer?

- What do you want me to say?
- Well, no.

- I just want to know the truth.
- You put me--

- Why? How does that help?
- I want you to tell the truth.

I told you a lot of truth
and it didn't help.

Because you make a fool of me
if you don't.

I'm not making a fool of you.

Yes, you make a fool of me
when you lie to me,

because all-- everyone else
knows what you're doing

- or other people know what you're doing...
- No. It--

- ...and your wife doesn't. I hate that.
- Who else knows?

- Well, whoever you're doing this shit with.
- No one knows.

Well, all right.

- But--
- But no, we had a deal, sort of.

- Uh, we-- I know.
- Which you couldn't actually

agree to or adhere to.

Well, so that was honest.

I wasn't honest. I--

- It's-- It's-- W-- It's very--
- You're still not honest.

You've behaved really terribly.

Well, you know, I also, like...

expressed who I was
and who I am.

You know,
I just can't put that in a box.

No, but...

you don't have to be
dishonest about it.

In order for me to stay married
and to feel--

have self-respect,

I need to know
that my husband or my--

- my-- my spouse, my mate.
- No, but when you--

when you knew about my
appetites, so to speak,

and you knew about it
and I was honest about it,

you know, you still threatened
to leave.

No, no. When I--
When we talked about it,

I said I understand,

you can have an arrangement,

but it was-- it would be
a paid-for-service kind of thing

with a--
with a professional dominatrix.

Okay, I can handle that.

But when you tell the kids
that you're, like,

that you've fallen in love
with somebody,

I mean, that's really fucked up.
That's fucked up Buzz.

I didn't say that.

You said something
to that effect.

No, you know, I didn't.
How do you know?

do you have the fucking texts?

We have a good marriage.

We have a better marriage
than most.

You keep--
You keep saying that.

Well, we do. What do you want?


Truth? All right, fine.
I haven't given you the truth.

You haven't been forthcoming.

Yeah, what else? I give you
love. I give you respect.

I give you honor. I give you
things that you care about.

I try to take care of you.
I mean, I love you, you know.

- Well--
- Part of buying this place

was 'cause you love it here.

You know, whether-- Is this
the perfect place for me?

I don't know. But what--

Is there a perfect place
for you?

- I don't think there is.
- Probably not.

No, because I'm always raging.

If you were in New York...

Well, I'm raging
with restlessness.

You are complicated.
That's an understatement.


you know what?
What am I gonna say?

I've behaved badly.

I did.

It was a really rough winter
and it's still rough.

It's still rough, occasionally.

There are ups and downs.

There are trust issues for sure,

more than ever.

Which is a pity.

But, what do I do, cut and run?

I don't think so.

Well, we still get along
really well.

Don't we? I think we do.

Most of the time.


- First of all...
- Yeah.

I know we're coming to
the finish line here.

You're getting a little cranky
on me.

You know,
I-- I know-- I know

- you're feeling the pressure...
- I know, because--

- in getting this done.
- Yeah, but I want to--

I wanna get it done right.

Well, I know
and we're all on the same boat.

- But you get a little--
- Yeah but I-- I'm the one

- who's got to do it.
- A little cranky.

I've got hundreds of changes
from her

and hundreds of changes from you
and I want to get them all in.

I didn't give you
that many changes.

Yeah, you gave a lot of changes
and that's fine.

- On the first read-through.
- That's fine.

But then I have to do it
a second time,

it's three or four extra steps.
It just is.

And you have to, at some point,

you-- you know how you dedicate
a book to-- to people?

You're gonna have to
figure that out.

Can I dedicate it to you, Buzz?

N-- N-- No.

Well, you can. No.

I will be curious to see
who you de--

Well, you dedicate it
to your kids, right?

Buzz, it's all about you.

No, none of it's about me.
All right, author's note.

I wonder if I had more money,
would I leave him?


That's really dismal.

But I would miss him.
See that's the thing

I miss him when he's not here.

I miss him when he goes away
and I love when he comes back.

And then when he-- then when he
starts to act badly,

then I feel bad about
having him around, so...

I think marriages are that way.
I don't know.

I don't know.
I've been married three times

and I still don't know.

And that's that.

She turned out to be
a pretty good dog, didn't she?

This is Casey. Casey, um,

Casey is a good girl. Isn't she?

She is.
She's a lot like Maddy.

She's not--
she's not as funny as Maddy.

She doesn't play
the way Maddy did.

She follows me
almost everywhere, though.

But maybe she'll stay out here
with you guys.

Are you ready
to scatter Maddy's ashes?

Well, I'm not.
I think it would be phony.

I think it would-- I mean, it...

I'm not really ready
because I'm...

I'm so angry at Buzz
for lying to me

that I'm not really feeling
close enough to him

to do something that's that
emotionally significant,


Did you see she's in a--
she's in a box in his office?

Did you see the box
where she is?

I'll bring the box out.

It's got a photograph of her and
Buzz in their happiest moment,

both of them sleeping.

So, anyway...

that's where Maddy is now.

And ever in our hearts.

"Then there was the issue
of the surgery.

It is a complex decision
under any circumstance.

So, over the past 18 months
I go back and forth.

I lean towards having it done

and then I hesitate."

The big-- the big reveal of this
book is she has the surgery.

So, she has to have the surgery.

What do you mean by,
"she has to"?

Because she's gonna have it,

but you can't have the book
in which the big denouement

is "I'm ready to do it."
She's got to have it done.

And is she ready for that?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.
She's the one who said,

"It has to be done
before the book comes out."

It's been totally horrific.

So, I mean, if I were gonna
predict what's gonna happen,

he thinks it's 25 percent
we're gonna get-- we're gonna...

we're gonna crash and burn

and I think it's 25 percent
that we're gonna survive.

I don't really want to be in
this very crowded relationship.

So, I think that we'll
probably separate. Um...

sort of separate
but not formally and then...

decide what we want to do
after that,

in the fall, because I want him
to finish the book.

I don't want to be the--
the excuse

that he's not
finishing the book.

And I love him to death.
That's the problem, really,

is that without him in my life,

I have no family.

You know, I have no...

really to love or to love me,

and that's really tough and I'm
talking about the kids, too.

And when you're, you know,
he's gonna...

Gerry and Dana
are gonna have a baby

and I'm not gonna be able
to get-- be a part of that.

I'm not--
I'm gonna miss that a lot.

But I also can't live a lie.

that's the way it is.

We used to watch,
as a family, every Christmas,

um, Love Actually.

It's a very upbeat movie
except for the one

Alan Rickman,
Emma what's-her-name,

line in it, the storyline,

where Rickman's character...

um, is cheating on his wife
and she finds out.

She-- She-- She--
She's not sure,

but she- she finds out because
she thought that she was gonna

get this necklace that she found
in his-- in his jacket pocket.

She thought she was going to
get that for Christmas.

And she says to him,
you know, I mean,

"What do I do?
I mean, what do I do with this?

Do I-- Do I-- Is it love?
I mean, do I stick around

or do I leave?"

And he says something like,
"I'm such a fool."

And she says,
"Well when you're a fool..."

now I'm going to cry,

"When you make yourself a f--

when you're a fool,
you make me a fool,

you make my life foolish."

And that's what's happening
with Buzz and me.

He's making my life foolish,
and I'm not gonna accept that.

I'm just not.

Because I'm-- I deserve better.

And that's that.

"We all have choices.
We all make choices.

It is why I have written
this book.

That you see through my life
the pain and compromises

and inevitable unhappiness
that accompanies you

wherever you go when you cannot
make those choices,

even though they are embedded
in your soul.

I've written this book
to help us see

that there is no right way to be

or wrong way to be

or anyway to be
except whom you are.

I've written this book
to show what happens

when roadblocks of iron

are set up to prevent
the most sacred part

of all of us
the freedom of self-expression.

I've written this book
because I'm not perfect,

far from it,

and have made my share
of mistakes."

- "Perhaps most important--"
- "I'm-- I'm free,

and life
is so much more simple."

You gotta get that in.

It's just so much more
simple now.

Okay, I will. Okay.

Yeah, uh, put that in there.

Flower it up a little bit.

Yes, sir.

"There is something
about the moon tonight

that is taking me
in a thousand directions.

Maybe it's because it's the
residual of the Harvest Moon

that took place
the night before,

a glow, an orb all its own.

I think of friends
I have not thanked enough.

I think of my children
and how I can only give them

the one thing any of us
can truly give,

which is love.

I think of successes.
I think of failures.

The moon rises slowly
and pivots over the mountains.

Its glow is hypnotic.

We all look
in the silence of wonder,

because there is wonder
in the world for all of us.

You never know what will happen.
You just never do.

Oh, and by the way,
I did have the surgery

last November,
two days after Thanksgiving.

All of you can stop staring.

The question was never going
to ever go away.

now it's none of your business.

It is my book and I feel
like I have to be honest,

which is why this is
the first time and the last time

I will ever speak of it again."

Pretty fucking good.

I like that ending.
You don't like it?

No, I like the ending.

That was excellent work.

We-- We got a shitload done.

- Yeah, yeah. We go it.
- It was great. Got a lot done.

And thank you for your focus.

From 30 Rockefeller
Plaza in New York

Late Night with Seth Myers!

Tonight, Caitlyn Jenner!

Author Buzz Bissinger!

Welcome back
to Late Night, everybody.

We're here with Caitlyn Jenner
and Buzz Bissinger,

a Pulitzer Prize-winning

and co-author
of Caitlyn Jenner's memoir,

The Secrets of My Life. Thanks
very much for being here, Buzz.

Hey, it's my pleasure.

I just want you to know,
with Buzz,

when I first met him, uh,
he had a shirt and tie on.

- Mm-hmm.
- Yeah.

Okay? Um, and then after
talking for two years,

literally two years
from the Vanity Fair article,

because he did that, to now,

I've opened up his entire life.

- Yeah.
- Yeah, right.

Look at him.
He is now his authentic self.

Yeah, there you go.

- The real Buzz Bissinger.
- I-- I feel--

Everybody needs to tune in
two weeks from tonight

to Late Night
to see what I'm wearing.

Yeah, I know!
You never know!

And that's what this book
is about:

The pain, the horror, and then,
ultimately, the exhilaration

of coming to grips with yourself and I bet everyone here,

one way or another,
can identify with it.

Everybody's got their stuff.


The Secrets of My Life

is available now.

We'll be right back
with more Late Night.

If we were to end
the film today,

what would you like it to say

about the state
of your marriage?

They lived happily ever after,
of course!

They lived happily ever after.
Not necessarily together,

but they lived
happily ever after.

I definitely am sad about

the fact that my marriage
has failed.

It's sad, frankly.
I mean, it's, uh...


Buzz says that he's searching
for his authentic self.

That he wants to explore
the part of himself

that he has never really
explored adequately.

This is the way
I wanna be,

particularly in terms of--
of-- of dress

and this is the way I want to
be in terms of my sexuality.

Buzz has somebody else
in his life

who is a dominatrix

He is simply trying
to live his life.

I think that Buzz
is happier now

than he's been in a long time.

You pay a price.

But whether it was late fifties,
early sixties,

something within me
said I want--

I need to live
an authentic sexual self,

which I really had not...

I'd done it in dribs and drabs,
but I just felt,

and this is from Caitlyn,

I don't want to die
not having experienced

what I felt was
authentic to me.

At least I can say, as fucked
up as I made things,

as much pain as I caused,
I have evolved,

and I was my authentic self.

You'll note that I'm not wearing
a wedding ring anymore.

Um, I took it off some time ago.

It hasn't helped me land any,
uh, sexual partners though,


And who knows, there may be some
sort of romance down the line

for me after all.

And I know I've said
a million times

that I've had so much sex that
I don't really need it anymore,

want anymore,

but I kind of would like to
do it one more time,

maybe, depending on who it is,
you know.

For Friday weather

for the lower Columbia
coastal region.

Today, rain. High near fifty.

Tonight, rain.

Overnight low
around forty-five.

Saturday, rain.
High near fifty.

And Sunday, snow showers likely,
possibly mixed with rain.

High near forty.
Overnight low twenty-eight.

So, get out those galoshes
and mittens.

My name is Lisa Smith and I'll
be here until eight o'clock

when Joanne Rideout
will bring us the news

and her signature Columbia River
ship report.

Let's see what's going on
this weekend.

Author Jeanette Chaffee

will be speaking at
the Seaside Public Library

at 1:00 p.m. tomorrow, Saturday.

She's gonna share
how she survived

the Washington flight 840
explosion of a terrorist bomb

less than 14 feet from her.

It is the only time in history
passengers have survived

a bomb exploded aboard
a commercial plane mid-air.

Well, that's chilling,
she lost a leg.

No, no, no. She didn't.
I'm sorry. I'm misreading this.

Okay. Let's see.

Well, Coast Community Radio's
supported by its listeners

and we thank you. If you're not
a member yet, please join us.

org or you can call the station
anytime during business hours.

Let's listen now
to two selections

from Russian cellist and
Astoria Music Festival mainstay

Sergey Antonov's CD
To Astorians with Love,

Georg Goltermann's romance
and Franz Shubert's adagio,

and, yes, this collection really
is dedicated to Astorians

from Sergey with love.

He is so sweet.

You have the cutest little damn
Bissinger nose.