After School (1988) - full transcript
A student-teacher relationship goes way beyond the classroom, including pre-historic times.
-My God, are you alright,didn't you see me, I got...
-Yeah! I am alright.
-Are you alright?
-Yeah, I am alright,I am fine, I...
-Hmm, my car is a mess.
-Having too much fun, I guess.
-You, I...I am sorry,I didn't see you.
-Oh, you didn't see me?
You didn't see that yield
sign, September?
-I was running late,I'm sorry.
-You are late?
Fine, fine, go, go on!
-Alright.
-Hey, listen.
There is a garage out on
Orange Avenue.
The sign outside
says County Boys.
Go in there and tell Nathan
I sent you, okay?
He'll take care of you
and make it good as new.
-Really?
Thanks!
-Yes.
-Well, it was nice
running into you.
Yeah!, let's do it again
sometime.
-Good!
It was great diving.
-I broke too far, didn't I?
-Hey!, it was good, it wasn't
bad, it really wasn't.
-Hey, September, wait up!
September, listen.
How about I pick you uptonight, around 7?
-Not tonight Jay.
I've got a book,
I want to finish.
-Oh you've got a bookyou want to finish, ah?
Well, that is just wonderful.
Well, listen, I'll call you.
September?
-Hey, this look great or what?
-Hum?
-September?
-Ooh...
-You're giving up a partyfor a book?
Sometimes I worry about youSeptember
I mean just becauseJay is a jerk
doesn't mean you have to
give up on men completely.
Well, I guess I'll just...
Go by myself.
-I'm sorry...
Have fun.
-Thanks.
For our new students,I am Father Michael McCarren.
-This semester we will continueto examine the problems of
religions.
Let's start by examining
these three questions.
Who believes
in biblical creation?
Who believes that God createdman through evolution?
Okay.
Who believes man just evolvedand he created God...
In his own mind?
Let's begin with the last
question first.
Why would anyone...
Create such a complex concept?
September?
-To answer the unanswerable.
-Explain that.
-Well, primitive man needed
to find answers
for all his questions, so...
He created God
in his own imagination.
-That would take
a lot of imagination.
-I've got a pretty good
imagination.
-I'm sure that you do.
-We should have an interesting
program for you today,
and probably
a controversial one.
We have three couples,
all of whom are members
of a sect group,
an organization,
called the Lord's Sword and
Guard Society,
I'm sure you've read about this,
these are people who gave up
their houses,
in some cases they even left
their jobs, their savings,
and gave the money
to the controversial
Reverend Clark Smith.
-How is it going?
-These talk shows are stirringup some controversialreligious issues.
Familiar with this?
-Oh yes, I, ah...
Heard about it,
I haven't read it.
Cavett has invited the authorof this book, an ex-priest,to appear on his show.
He has also invited to Church,
to discuss this book.
Probably debate the author.
-Hum!
-We have been instructed
by the Vatican,
to supply the church's
representative.
-Why us?
I'm being considered
for an appointment.
I fear it's...
It's their way
of testing me.
I've got to pick the right
person for that.
-What about that young debate
coach up at Boston College?
-Too glib.
-Jack Cains has done this kind
of thing before.
-Too old.
-Ah!
Michael McCarren.
A younger fellow, teachesat Saint-Jo's in Florida.
He wrote that excellent articleon Church hierarchy, the Times
picked it up.
-Didn't we offer him a positionhere and he turned us down?
-He turned us down because
he felt that his calling
was to teach.
-His calling...
This younger generation...
One thing though...
Mister Cavett has his own
investigative unit.
Any problems about this
Michael McCarren?
-Uhm, not that I know of.
He rides a motorcycle.
-Good, that will get us
the under 30 audience.
Fun, you handle it.
-Good, I can usea trip to Florida.
-Okay.
-For instance, what motivated
the water creature to come
to land
and why did the reptile
learn to fly?
-Species evolved in response to,ah, environmental stimuli.
-Uh, nice theory.
Let's apply it.
What environmental stimuli
convinced the reptile he
should learn to fly?
What gave him the idea to fly,
because there were no birds
around for him to copy.
-Maybe he was just a bold
and adventurous lizard
and he wasn't afraid to try
something different.
I bet he was really surprised
the first time he jumped
out of a tree
and discovered gravity.
-That's another problem
with environmental stimuli.
-Wait, now I have a question
for you.
-Alright.
-If God created both sexes
of all other species
at the same time,
was it an oversight
that he didn't create a woman,
when he created a man?
And,
why did he need
to take a rib?
-Saved by the bell.
Okay, that was a good class.
I'll see you all next Thursday,alright?
We'll talk about
that question then.
-Young lady,
I'm delighted to see someonegiving him
the hard time that heused to give me.
-Father McCarren?
-Father McCarren.
-Good to see you.
-Michael, good to see you.
-What a surprise.
Uh, Monsignor Barrett,my mentor, September.
-Oh!
-One of my better students,although a little too skeptical.
-That was nice meeting you
father, bye bye.
-Bye.
So, what brings youto Saint-Jo's?
-I have an interesting offer foryou, let's go talk somewhere.
-I know just the place.
-But the Church needs someone
more experienced than me.
-I think not.
You're young, articulate,got the kind of brains we need.
Besides, if you should bea total flop, God forbid,you're expandable.
-That makes me feel better.
-Michael,
this is very importantto the Church.
You should be very proud.
We can get youwhatever you want.
-Sorry man, ah...
Are you leaving us?
-No Nathan, the Church wants me
to go on TV and discuss a book
with its author.
-On TV?
-Yeah, national TV.
-Michael...
-Wow!
-Michael.
The Press has picked upon the author's implication
that man created Godin his own imagination.
-This is nothing new.
-Yes, but when it comesfrom an ex-priest,
it guarantees controversy.
-I don't know if I'm
the right man for this job.
-That's what I'm here for,to help you in any way I can.
Besides,
it's a pleasure to be workingwith you again.
-Good, here.
-I figured you wouldn't
run away from me here.
-I haven't been running awayfrom you, Jay.
-Yeah well, you haven't exactly
been going out of your way to
see me, now, have you?
-I've been busy.
-Busy with whom?
-Why does it have to be anybody?
-Why are you doing this to us?
Uh?
I asked you a question.
-There is no us, Jay.
Not anymore.
-You wouldn't have saidthat before.
-People change.
-I haven't.
-Maybe that's part of it.
-Oh!
Oh I see.
So now you want me to be
somebody different.
Is that it?
-I didn't say that Jay.
-I don't understand you.
Look at me.
Look at me.
-Look.
We had a lot of reallygood times together.
Let's just leave itlike that, okay?
-I love you, September.
-Not really.
You're not readyto love anybody.
-And you are?
-It's just not goodanymore, Jay.
-Look.
Can't we at least try?
Uh?
Talk about what's wrong.
I can change.
There's nothing
to talk about, Jay.
Please go.
Please Jay, go.
-There's nothing wrong with the
argument about early man's
awareness.
-You mean,
like the...
Tribal leader's search for anauthority higher than himself?
-Right.
The book argues that man
created God.
We would maintain that man
simply became aware of God.
-Yes, but God,through his strength,
made his presence knowneven to the earliest of men.
-Yeah.
Which could include
their imaginations.
But still the author, Thomas,he's not arguing againstthe existence of God,
It's just a definition.
-He denies our real God.
-Does he?
-Automatically.
-Or is he just trying to get us
to open up our conception
of God?
-That's possible.
-Father McCarren?
You know, I've always been
curious why the Church is so
afraid of accepting new ideas.
-Ah, father Mac?
-Nathan?
Take it slow with this thing,if you blow it up one more time,
you better trade it in
for a horse.
-Yeah, right.
Thank you.
-Hi father.
-There.
-Thanks.
Are you off to do priestlythings?
-Yeah.
-Listen.
If you decide you needa practice audiencebefore the big TV debate,
I'd be interested in hearingwhatever you have to say.
-Well...
It might not be a bad idea.
-Name the time.
-Ah...
How about 10 o'clock
in the morning?
My office, tomorrow.
-I'll be there.
I'll run.
-Mister Thomas says that early
man, unable to find answers
to his questions,
resorted to his own imaginationto provide himself with answers.
This is no new argument,
the earliest Church response
to this was by...
-Ahem.
-...the thirteenth century.
Hi.
-Am I late?
-No, no, sit down, oh...
Yeah.
-Is something the matter?
-No, I just...
Why are you startingwith Aquinas?
-Oh, it's a classical argument.
-Which, even you said,was largely based on thepresupposition that God exists.
-Really?
Did I say that?
-Last semester.
-Don't you remember?
-Well, I was gonna use it
as the starting point,
it's a traditional
line of reasoning
with the Church's beliefs.
-Isn't the Church's positionthat God exists period?
-Well...
Yes.
-Really, the whole Churchconcept is such a simplisticone.
-Simplistic?
-Yeah.
It answers all questionsby saying, oh God did it.
It's not really an answer.
-Uhm.
So...
Do you know the answers?
-I know they're not to be foundin ceremonies and dogma.
-Okay, then how are we to know
God's purposes?
-I don't know that God's purposeexists at all.
-September.
I hate to see you so
narrow-minded in your beliefs.
-I don't work for an institutionthat refuses to believe.
It's nearly the 21st century.
-Well, just because we don't
endorse everything around us,
doesn't mean that we're
not aware of everything.
Part of having a religion is...
Having the discipline
to maintain valuable beliefs.
-Like celibacy for priests?
-Well...
That's a personal decision.
-Which you endorse.
-I've never had
a problem with it.
That's a matter of commitment.
-How can you work in sucha cramped space, it's like a...
-A monk's cell?
-Where do you like to work?
-Outdoors, the park, the zoo.
-The zoo?
-Ah, it's a great place
to think.
You should try it sometimes.
-I feel like I'm playing hooky.
-Ah, your secret's safe with me.
Do you want a hot dog?
-Uhm, I'm on a diet.
-Oh!, look.
-It's really fabulous.
-Ah ha.
-Being monkeys is finewith them, don't you think?
-I guess so.
-Why do you suppose
that monkey will wake up
one morning and decide,
today, I think I'Il
evolve into a man?
-I don't know.
-Probably recommend get up
one morning and decide
he wants to become a priest?
-That's a completelydifferent question.
-And infinitely
more interesting.
-Well, he might look goodas a priest.
-Oh!, you have to use
both hands.
-I hope the afternoon helped.
-I had a wonderful time.
-Me too.
-Thank you.
Good night.
-My pleasure.
Good night.
-Do you gift wrap?
-It depends.
Oh!, sure.
That will be $20.95.
- No, no, no, do understand
that it's possible
that man has created God
in his own image.
But the result is,
are sometimes...
-Hello.
-I just wanted to thank you
for the book.
-Ah, September.
Well, you're welcome.
-I just have one question.
-What's that?
-Is uh...
Gift giving to young women
allowed by the Church?
-The nature and intent of the
gift would determine that.
-God, one day you'll be pope.
-Let's hope not.
I'll be happy enough to get
through these debates.
-Oh!, how is it going?
-Good news today,
they're having the show in town.
-Really?
That's great.
-Yeah, at least, I'll have
a friendly audience.
-I'll be there.
Ah!
-Are you okay?
-I just dropped my apple.
-Yeah, but it sounded
like water splashing.
-I'm taking a bath.
-You're eating an apple
in the bathtub?
-Uh hum.
-Do you remember the problems
that apples caused?
You'd better be careful.
-I'm always careful.
-What do you think?
-Ah, carburetor mixtureis too lean.
Idle is too low.
-What about the clutch?
-Yeah, give me a 5/8open-end wrench, okay?
-Father Mac, uh...
We've got a question
for you to settle.
-Go ahead, shoot,I'll try my best.
-We've been having a, ah...
A disagreement.
Now, which should I love more,my girl or my bike?
-It's a pretty dumb question,Nathan.
Your love for an inanimateobject can never equal the loveyou share with another person.
-Now wait a second,now wait, now,
my bike is not just an, an,an, ah, an, ah...
-Inanimate.
-Whatever, my bikeis not just an object, okay,
It's, it's me, it's my freedom,my ah, my ah...
-Your orientation towards life.
-Yeah!
-Yeah, exactly.
-There's nothing wrong withthat, everybody needsan orientation.
As long as the symbolsdon't become too important.
-Well, you mean my bike, yeah?
-Well, the bike or that
cigarette, you know,
the symbols become
too important and,
and you forget
what they stand for.
That's not right.
-So what's the answer?
What's more important?
Nathan's girl
or his bike.
-I think Nathan knows
the answer to that.
-Yeah!
My bike.
-Surprise!
One hot pizza,
hold the anchovies.
-Oh!
September?
-Hi.
-Hi, what a surprise.
Come in.
-So this is howpriests live, ah?
-Not quite a monk's cell, is it?
-No.
-I'm about to drink wine,
would you like some?
-Oh yeah, thanks Father Mac,that would be great.
-Michael.
-Alright, Michael.
-Cheers.
-It's getting late.
-You're a silly girl,September.
-You can't leave until we'vefinished our conversation.
-Oh!, what are we talking about?
I lost my train of thought.
-What were we talking about?
-Excuse me.
Hello.
Oh, Frank.
The work?
Pretty slow.
I'm not sure,I've really got to...
No, I don't think tonightwill be good.
I appreciate Frank,we'll talk tomorrow.
Good night.
-Open it.
-Why didn't you knock?
Where did you get these?
-God, you're amazing.
Sit here like you're totally
innocent with the evidence
staring you in the face.
-These pictures are misleading,what are you trying to imply?
-That you're screwing
one of your students.
You know, it's bad enough
you're her teacher,
but a priest?
You ought to be
ashamed of yourself.
-Get out of my office.
-I'm gonna let you keep
this bunch,
but next time,
everybody gets to see them.
Got it Padre?
-Hey Father Mac.
-Come on, five, six.
Three, four, five.
Now back in place.
Give me eight more.
Push, push it.
-What's the score?
-It will be over soon.
Skins are killin' 'em.
-Alrighty, heel jacks spins
to one, two.
-Father Mac?
-Come on.
-Father Mac looksdistracted today.
-You coming?
-Nah, you guys go ahead,
I'll ah, catch you up later.
-Missing a rib?
Wait.
What's wrong?
-You and I have become
very close friends, September,
perhaps too close.
-Uh oh!
Divinity lecture number 407.
-Don't be unfair.
-Unfair?
I like being with you,I enjoy it.
I'm sharing ideas with youand being told I can't becauseyou're a priest and that's fair?
-Appearances matter.
-You make it sound like
we're sneaking around
sleeping together.
-I just don't understand how
you can give up so much
to be a priest.
-Sacrifices have their rewards.
-And you'd rather wait
and get yours in Heaven?
-I get a great dealout of what I do.
That includes our friendship,I'm not saying that we haveto end it.
Just that we've got to be aware.
-I think you're afraid.
-Of what?
-Yourself.
-It's very good.
-Are you sure it's safe for you
to be seen talking with me
like this?
-Well, I guess I had thatcoming, ah?
September?
The last thing I need right nowis a scandal, understand?
-I understand.
I just hate for Church to keep
us from being friends.
-I saw your drawingto the Art Show.
-I didn't think you had time
for that sort of stuff.
-I was curious.
-Is it me?
-Yeah.
Once upon a time...
-I saw Jay today.
-And?
What do you thinkof this dress?
-It's great.
September,
Jay's been telling everyone on
campus that you're fooling
around with Father Mac.
-Doesn't surprise me.
-This whole thing is getting
out of control.
-Oh Annie, I'm so confused.
-I mean, you're asking
for a lot of pain.
I just hope he's worth it.
-Oh, when I'm with him,it's so natural, so comfortable.
Like it was meant to be.
-Well, I don't blame you
for going after him.
I just, I just don't want
to see you get hurt.
-I can't help it.
I just can't, ah.
-Hi.
I didn't want
to disturb your work.
-Hello.
-I wanted to see you, I guess
that sounds silly, ah?
-No, not at all.
-You wanna go for a walk?
-Sure, I'd love to.
-Where are you taking me?
-Ah, the garden of Eden.
-So now you believe
in the garden?
-Coat?
-Uhm, yeah!
Thank you.
-September.
You're very special.
-You make me feel special.
-Would you like an ice cream?
-Wait a minute.
Wait, wait a minute.
-Why are you so afraid of me?
-I have these feelings.
They're good feelings,
but they're just not right.
-What's not right?
-I'm a priest.
I made a pledge to the Churchand to God.
-Does that mean
you can't be human?
-No.
No, I'm quite human.
-And you do like me,
don't you?
-September, I like you verymuch, but...
-But what?
-I made my vows.
-Your vows?
A bunch of words you mumbled
when you were too young to even
understand what they meant.
-Uh, two vanilla cones.
-Chocolate.
-I don't like chocolate.
-I didn't say they both
had to be chocolate.
-Come on, I'm trying
to close up here.
-Okay, one chocolate for herand I'll have a vanilla.
-Okay.
-Look, it's delicious.
-There you go.
-Thank you, good night.
-Will we still be friends?
-We gotta be.
-You two go ahead.
Don't let me stop you.
-I just wanted to talkto September.
-It's okay.
-Alright.
I'll get some napkins.
-What do you want?
-I just wanted to seethe two of you up close.
So tell me,
do you like screwing a priest?
- Uh!
-No.
-Ah!
-Hello.
-Hello Michael.
-September?
-I, uh...
I just wanted to call and
apologize for running
off the other night.
-Oh, if anyone should apologize,it's me.
-Why, uh?
-I should have never let it...
Turn into what it did.
-What are you talking about?
-September,
not now, okay, uh.
I have, I have to concentrate
on this show.
I have a lot on my mind.
-Yeah, sure.
I'm sorry.
-I have never,
in my entire life,
met anyone so arrogant.
So insensitive.
And so self-centered as you.
-Uhm.
-You let me finish.
What you did was unfair.
-You wanted me
to fall in love with you.
And when I did...
You hid behind God
to avoid me.
-Here.
-Michael?
Michael, what happened?
-Last night, I...
Frank...
What is love?
-Love?
Love is devotion,trust, caring...
-It's also passion.
I'm only human.
-Of course you're human.
-They expect us to act
as though we weren't.
-Michael...
-I have feelings.
-Then learn to controlthose feelings.
And channel that passioninto God's love.
-I know what it is
to be a priest.
I just want to be a man.
-You chose a higher path,Michael.
Nobody ever saidit would be easy.
Father McCarren.
You made certain pledgesto God and his Church.
Now right now, you don't knowwhether you've sinned
or whether you've justbeen liberated.
But your primary dutyis to that Church.
And by fulfilling that duty,you will find the answersyou seek.
-How?
-Through the grace of God.
You haven't lost your beliefin God, have you?
-No, no I haven't lost
my belief.
I'm just not sure.
-Our doubts lead usto a deeper faith.
Ask his help.
Now, go on home, get some sleep,get cleaned up.
I know you'll make usproud of you, Michael.
-Yeah.
-Hello.
-How are you?
-You must really hate me?
Will you ever forgive me?
-There's nothing to forgive.
-Why haven't you been in class?
-I was too embarrassed
to face you.
-Embarrassed?
You shouldn't be embarrassedof anything.
-Not even of taking my clothes
off in front of a priest?
Sorry, not funny.
Oh Michael, how come
it's so complicated?
-I've been asking myselfthat same question.
The answers used to beso simple.
But they aren't anymore.
-What can be wrong with the way
we feel for each other?
-It's not the feelings,
-Ah you still can't...
-I made a vow
to live a certain life.
This is though
I'm already married,
I can't forsake
that commitment.
Our lives are too far apart.
Still, I want to thank you
for sharing your world with me.
-Oh well.
Not many girls can saythey lost out to God.
So, tomorrow isyour big day, ah?
Are you ready?
-I'm not sure.
-I sure hope Godappreciates what a...
Great champion he's got in you.
-Are you gonna be there?
-It's better that I don't.
You'll do great.
I know you will.
-September...
I love you.
- Father McCarren?
-Well, Michael, ready?
-Ah, yes.
As ready as I'll ever be.
-Good.
- Three minutes to air.
- Ready camera one.
Standby coming.
Standby announced.
One minute to air.
Standby VT roll.
- Jinny Carrey,
University of Georgia,
to do a forward
two and a half pikes.
Degree of difficulty, 2.3.
-What we're going to do for
the next hour, is talk about
this book.
It's called Before God, it's a
novel by C,A, Thomas
and it's a book that's caused
quite a lot of controversy,especially in religious circles.
It's a book that has upset
a number of people andwe have the author here with us.
Mr. Thomas who's going to help
us talk about it.
And also with us, representing
what you might call
the other side
is Father Michael McCarren
for the Catholic Church.
Gentlemen, welcome.
Now, Mr. Thomas, I guess
we should begin with you,
because uh,
well, lately, you've been calleda lot of things.
You've been attacked by your
critics as a heretic,
as an atheist,
as a man who has staged
a one-man assault,
an attack on the Church.
And these are important charges,of course,
because, in your case,
you were a priest
and have left the Church.
So, let's begin with you, why?
Mr. Cavett, I'm afraid that themedia has totally overblownmy...
Importance of my work as thebook was not intended to attackanyone.
-But you do renounce
the Church and, ah...
And leaving the priesthood?
-I've...
I left the Church,I did not leave God.
-And why did you leavethe Church?
-I left the Church becauseit became...
Apparent to me that theChurch was more involvedin the Church than in God.
- 8.5.
-Father McCarren,
that seems to be your cue.
-We obviously
take strong exception
with Mr. Thomas' opinion that
God is a creation of man.
Our conception of God
may be limited by our
own comprehension,
but that hardly explains away
the actual existence of Lord
God.
He is the creative force.
-Father, is, is that...
Is that statement intendedto be a definition of God?
-At least a definition and,
I believe, a reality.
-I accept that view.
-Now, by that you mean that
you don't think it's important
that God be defined as
either simply a definition
or a reality?
-Oh no, actually, it isn't,whether God exists or is acreation of man isn't important.
We need him, we, we use himthe same, either way,
what's important is whatwe do this day.
This day and then tomorrowand the next.
-Where's September?
-Well, she was here
a moment ago.
-Our seeking of God, every day,
will bring us to him, whateverGod may or may not be.
-But why do you choose to give
so little importance to God?
-No, excuse me father,
I'm afraid you've totally
missed the point.
-You've reduced God to a figmentof early man's imagination.
-No, no I don't, I can't.
I can't reduce God.
I simply allow God to be
what he is and for every
individual to seek,
to seek God at their own level,we all have that capacity.
Man doesn't need a burning bush,we have minds.
-The duty of the Catholic Church
is to help man have
a better understanding
of God and the mysteries.
-Yes, but the Church sometimesstifles man's understanding withits dogma, with its rituals.
-It's the rituals that help
create order in our lives,
you know that.
You were taught by the Church.
-Father, I wasn't only taught
by the Church, I said mass,
I was a priest.
But I had to leave the Church tohave my own freedom of thought.
A Church that doesn't allow anyexperimentation when it comes
to questions of faith
and doctrine.
Look, no man needs to be
force-fed someone else's
theory of God.
If we just learn to listen,
just...
Really listen to
our inner voice...
We would know what path
to follow.
-Well...
God's rules are specific.
-Say, you don't believe that,
I don't think you even
believe that.
It's the Church's rules
that are very specific.
-Yes, but we've been following
the Church's rules for
generations and centuries.
-The Church...
The Church needs to help manunderstand God,
not to dictate somedefinition of God.
God will be what manneeds God to be.
He will, he will care for us,he will comfort us whenwe need him.
And Father McCarren...
God will allow youto go your path along.
When you feel you knowyour own way.
-Well.
Father McCarren, I'm sure you...
Father McCarren?
I seem to have lost my priest.
Yes sir, I think you have...
Excuse me, gentlemen.
-Father?
-We're gonna have
to get seatbelts.
-The show is over?
-Yep.
Is your dive meet over?
-I guess I'll never be
a champion diver.
-Wanna take a walk?
-Yeah.
-Yeah! I am alright.
-Are you alright?
-Yeah, I am alright,I am fine, I...
-Hmm, my car is a mess.
-Having too much fun, I guess.
-You, I...I am sorry,I didn't see you.
-Oh, you didn't see me?
You didn't see that yield
sign, September?
-I was running late,I'm sorry.
-You are late?
Fine, fine, go, go on!
-Alright.
-Hey, listen.
There is a garage out on
Orange Avenue.
The sign outside
says County Boys.
Go in there and tell Nathan
I sent you, okay?
He'll take care of you
and make it good as new.
-Really?
Thanks!
-Yes.
-Well, it was nice
running into you.
Yeah!, let's do it again
sometime.
-Good!
It was great diving.
-I broke too far, didn't I?
-Hey!, it was good, it wasn't
bad, it really wasn't.
-Hey, September, wait up!
September, listen.
How about I pick you uptonight, around 7?
-Not tonight Jay.
I've got a book,
I want to finish.
-Oh you've got a bookyou want to finish, ah?
Well, that is just wonderful.
Well, listen, I'll call you.
September?
-Hey, this look great or what?
-Hum?
-September?
-Ooh...
-You're giving up a partyfor a book?
Sometimes I worry about youSeptember
I mean just becauseJay is a jerk
doesn't mean you have to
give up on men completely.
Well, I guess I'll just...
Go by myself.
-I'm sorry...
Have fun.
-Thanks.
For our new students,I am Father Michael McCarren.
-This semester we will continueto examine the problems of
religions.
Let's start by examining
these three questions.
Who believes
in biblical creation?
Who believes that God createdman through evolution?
Okay.
Who believes man just evolvedand he created God...
In his own mind?
Let's begin with the last
question first.
Why would anyone...
Create such a complex concept?
September?
-To answer the unanswerable.
-Explain that.
-Well, primitive man needed
to find answers
for all his questions, so...
He created God
in his own imagination.
-That would take
a lot of imagination.
-I've got a pretty good
imagination.
-I'm sure that you do.
-We should have an interesting
program for you today,
and probably
a controversial one.
We have three couples,
all of whom are members
of a sect group,
an organization,
called the Lord's Sword and
Guard Society,
I'm sure you've read about this,
these are people who gave up
their houses,
in some cases they even left
their jobs, their savings,
and gave the money
to the controversial
Reverend Clark Smith.
-How is it going?
-These talk shows are stirringup some controversialreligious issues.
Familiar with this?
-Oh yes, I, ah...
Heard about it,
I haven't read it.
Cavett has invited the authorof this book, an ex-priest,to appear on his show.
He has also invited to Church,
to discuss this book.
Probably debate the author.
-Hum!
-We have been instructed
by the Vatican,
to supply the church's
representative.
-Why us?
I'm being considered
for an appointment.
I fear it's...
It's their way
of testing me.
I've got to pick the right
person for that.
-What about that young debate
coach up at Boston College?
-Too glib.
-Jack Cains has done this kind
of thing before.
-Too old.
-Ah!
Michael McCarren.
A younger fellow, teachesat Saint-Jo's in Florida.
He wrote that excellent articleon Church hierarchy, the Times
picked it up.
-Didn't we offer him a positionhere and he turned us down?
-He turned us down because
he felt that his calling
was to teach.
-His calling...
This younger generation...
One thing though...
Mister Cavett has his own
investigative unit.
Any problems about this
Michael McCarren?
-Uhm, not that I know of.
He rides a motorcycle.
-Good, that will get us
the under 30 audience.
Fun, you handle it.
-Good, I can usea trip to Florida.
-Okay.
-For instance, what motivated
the water creature to come
to land
and why did the reptile
learn to fly?
-Species evolved in response to,ah, environmental stimuli.
-Uh, nice theory.
Let's apply it.
What environmental stimuli
convinced the reptile he
should learn to fly?
What gave him the idea to fly,
because there were no birds
around for him to copy.
-Maybe he was just a bold
and adventurous lizard
and he wasn't afraid to try
something different.
I bet he was really surprised
the first time he jumped
out of a tree
and discovered gravity.
-That's another problem
with environmental stimuli.
-Wait, now I have a question
for you.
-Alright.
-If God created both sexes
of all other species
at the same time,
was it an oversight
that he didn't create a woman,
when he created a man?
And,
why did he need
to take a rib?
-Saved by the bell.
Okay, that was a good class.
I'll see you all next Thursday,alright?
We'll talk about
that question then.
-Young lady,
I'm delighted to see someonegiving him
the hard time that heused to give me.
-Father McCarren?
-Father McCarren.
-Good to see you.
-Michael, good to see you.
-What a surprise.
Uh, Monsignor Barrett,my mentor, September.
-Oh!
-One of my better students,although a little too skeptical.
-That was nice meeting you
father, bye bye.
-Bye.
So, what brings youto Saint-Jo's?
-I have an interesting offer foryou, let's go talk somewhere.
-I know just the place.
-But the Church needs someone
more experienced than me.
-I think not.
You're young, articulate,got the kind of brains we need.
Besides, if you should bea total flop, God forbid,you're expandable.
-That makes me feel better.
-Michael,
this is very importantto the Church.
You should be very proud.
We can get youwhatever you want.
-Sorry man, ah...
Are you leaving us?
-No Nathan, the Church wants me
to go on TV and discuss a book
with its author.
-On TV?
-Yeah, national TV.
-Michael...
-Wow!
-Michael.
The Press has picked upon the author's implication
that man created Godin his own imagination.
-This is nothing new.
-Yes, but when it comesfrom an ex-priest,
it guarantees controversy.
-I don't know if I'm
the right man for this job.
-That's what I'm here for,to help you in any way I can.
Besides,
it's a pleasure to be workingwith you again.
-Good, here.
-I figured you wouldn't
run away from me here.
-I haven't been running awayfrom you, Jay.
-Yeah well, you haven't exactly
been going out of your way to
see me, now, have you?
-I've been busy.
-Busy with whom?
-Why does it have to be anybody?
-Why are you doing this to us?
Uh?
I asked you a question.
-There is no us, Jay.
Not anymore.
-You wouldn't have saidthat before.
-People change.
-I haven't.
-Maybe that's part of it.
-Oh!
Oh I see.
So now you want me to be
somebody different.
Is that it?
-I didn't say that Jay.
-I don't understand you.
Look at me.
Look at me.
-Look.
We had a lot of reallygood times together.
Let's just leave itlike that, okay?
-I love you, September.
-Not really.
You're not readyto love anybody.
-And you are?
-It's just not goodanymore, Jay.
-Look.
Can't we at least try?
Uh?
Talk about what's wrong.
I can change.
There's nothing
to talk about, Jay.
Please go.
Please Jay, go.
-There's nothing wrong with the
argument about early man's
awareness.
-You mean,
like the...
Tribal leader's search for anauthority higher than himself?
-Right.
The book argues that man
created God.
We would maintain that man
simply became aware of God.
-Yes, but God,through his strength,
made his presence knowneven to the earliest of men.
-Yeah.
Which could include
their imaginations.
But still the author, Thomas,he's not arguing againstthe existence of God,
It's just a definition.
-He denies our real God.
-Does he?
-Automatically.
-Or is he just trying to get us
to open up our conception
of God?
-That's possible.
-Father McCarren?
You know, I've always been
curious why the Church is so
afraid of accepting new ideas.
-Ah, father Mac?
-Nathan?
Take it slow with this thing,if you blow it up one more time,
you better trade it in
for a horse.
-Yeah, right.
Thank you.
-Hi father.
-There.
-Thanks.
Are you off to do priestlythings?
-Yeah.
-Listen.
If you decide you needa practice audiencebefore the big TV debate,
I'd be interested in hearingwhatever you have to say.
-Well...
It might not be a bad idea.
-Name the time.
-Ah...
How about 10 o'clock
in the morning?
My office, tomorrow.
-I'll be there.
I'll run.
-Mister Thomas says that early
man, unable to find answers
to his questions,
resorted to his own imaginationto provide himself with answers.
This is no new argument,
the earliest Church response
to this was by...
-Ahem.
-...the thirteenth century.
Hi.
-Am I late?
-No, no, sit down, oh...
Yeah.
-Is something the matter?
-No, I just...
Why are you startingwith Aquinas?
-Oh, it's a classical argument.
-Which, even you said,was largely based on thepresupposition that God exists.
-Really?
Did I say that?
-Last semester.
-Don't you remember?
-Well, I was gonna use it
as the starting point,
it's a traditional
line of reasoning
with the Church's beliefs.
-Isn't the Church's positionthat God exists period?
-Well...
Yes.
-Really, the whole Churchconcept is such a simplisticone.
-Simplistic?
-Yeah.
It answers all questionsby saying, oh God did it.
It's not really an answer.
-Uhm.
So...
Do you know the answers?
-I know they're not to be foundin ceremonies and dogma.
-Okay, then how are we to know
God's purposes?
-I don't know that God's purposeexists at all.
-September.
I hate to see you so
narrow-minded in your beliefs.
-I don't work for an institutionthat refuses to believe.
It's nearly the 21st century.
-Well, just because we don't
endorse everything around us,
doesn't mean that we're
not aware of everything.
Part of having a religion is...
Having the discipline
to maintain valuable beliefs.
-Like celibacy for priests?
-Well...
That's a personal decision.
-Which you endorse.
-I've never had
a problem with it.
That's a matter of commitment.
-How can you work in sucha cramped space, it's like a...
-A monk's cell?
-Where do you like to work?
-Outdoors, the park, the zoo.
-The zoo?
-Ah, it's a great place
to think.
You should try it sometimes.
-I feel like I'm playing hooky.
-Ah, your secret's safe with me.
Do you want a hot dog?
-Uhm, I'm on a diet.
-Oh!, look.
-It's really fabulous.
-Ah ha.
-Being monkeys is finewith them, don't you think?
-I guess so.
-Why do you suppose
that monkey will wake up
one morning and decide,
today, I think I'Il
evolve into a man?
-I don't know.
-Probably recommend get up
one morning and decide
he wants to become a priest?
-That's a completelydifferent question.
-And infinitely
more interesting.
-Well, he might look goodas a priest.
-Oh!, you have to use
both hands.
-I hope the afternoon helped.
-I had a wonderful time.
-Me too.
-Thank you.
Good night.
-My pleasure.
Good night.
-Do you gift wrap?
-It depends.
Oh!, sure.
That will be $20.95.
- No, no, no, do understand
that it's possible
that man has created God
in his own image.
But the result is,
are sometimes...
-Hello.
-I just wanted to thank you
for the book.
-Ah, September.
Well, you're welcome.
-I just have one question.
-What's that?
-Is uh...
Gift giving to young women
allowed by the Church?
-The nature and intent of the
gift would determine that.
-God, one day you'll be pope.
-Let's hope not.
I'll be happy enough to get
through these debates.
-Oh!, how is it going?
-Good news today,
they're having the show in town.
-Really?
That's great.
-Yeah, at least, I'll have
a friendly audience.
-I'll be there.
Ah!
-Are you okay?
-I just dropped my apple.
-Yeah, but it sounded
like water splashing.
-I'm taking a bath.
-You're eating an apple
in the bathtub?
-Uh hum.
-Do you remember the problems
that apples caused?
You'd better be careful.
-I'm always careful.
-What do you think?
-Ah, carburetor mixtureis too lean.
Idle is too low.
-What about the clutch?
-Yeah, give me a 5/8open-end wrench, okay?
-Father Mac, uh...
We've got a question
for you to settle.
-Go ahead, shoot,I'll try my best.
-We've been having a, ah...
A disagreement.
Now, which should I love more,my girl or my bike?
-It's a pretty dumb question,Nathan.
Your love for an inanimateobject can never equal the loveyou share with another person.
-Now wait a second,now wait, now,
my bike is not just an, an,an, ah, an, ah...
-Inanimate.
-Whatever, my bikeis not just an object, okay,
It's, it's me, it's my freedom,my ah, my ah...
-Your orientation towards life.
-Yeah!
-Yeah, exactly.
-There's nothing wrong withthat, everybody needsan orientation.
As long as the symbolsdon't become too important.
-Well, you mean my bike, yeah?
-Well, the bike or that
cigarette, you know,
the symbols become
too important and,
and you forget
what they stand for.
That's not right.
-So what's the answer?
What's more important?
Nathan's girl
or his bike.
-I think Nathan knows
the answer to that.
-Yeah!
My bike.
-Surprise!
One hot pizza,
hold the anchovies.
-Oh!
September?
-Hi.
-Hi, what a surprise.
Come in.
-So this is howpriests live, ah?
-Not quite a monk's cell, is it?
-No.
-I'm about to drink wine,
would you like some?
-Oh yeah, thanks Father Mac,that would be great.
-Michael.
-Alright, Michael.
-Cheers.
-It's getting late.
-You're a silly girl,September.
-You can't leave until we'vefinished our conversation.
-Oh!, what are we talking about?
I lost my train of thought.
-What were we talking about?
-Excuse me.
Hello.
Oh, Frank.
The work?
Pretty slow.
I'm not sure,I've really got to...
No, I don't think tonightwill be good.
I appreciate Frank,we'll talk tomorrow.
Good night.
-Open it.
-Why didn't you knock?
Where did you get these?
-God, you're amazing.
Sit here like you're totally
innocent with the evidence
staring you in the face.
-These pictures are misleading,what are you trying to imply?
-That you're screwing
one of your students.
You know, it's bad enough
you're her teacher,
but a priest?
You ought to be
ashamed of yourself.
-Get out of my office.
-I'm gonna let you keep
this bunch,
but next time,
everybody gets to see them.
Got it Padre?
-Hey Father Mac.
-Come on, five, six.
Three, four, five.
Now back in place.
Give me eight more.
Push, push it.
-What's the score?
-It will be over soon.
Skins are killin' 'em.
-Alrighty, heel jacks spins
to one, two.
-Father Mac?
-Come on.
-Father Mac looksdistracted today.
-You coming?
-Nah, you guys go ahead,
I'll ah, catch you up later.
-Missing a rib?
Wait.
What's wrong?
-You and I have become
very close friends, September,
perhaps too close.
-Uh oh!
Divinity lecture number 407.
-Don't be unfair.
-Unfair?
I like being with you,I enjoy it.
I'm sharing ideas with youand being told I can't becauseyou're a priest and that's fair?
-Appearances matter.
-You make it sound like
we're sneaking around
sleeping together.
-I just don't understand how
you can give up so much
to be a priest.
-Sacrifices have their rewards.
-And you'd rather wait
and get yours in Heaven?
-I get a great dealout of what I do.
That includes our friendship,I'm not saying that we haveto end it.
Just that we've got to be aware.
-I think you're afraid.
-Of what?
-Yourself.
-It's very good.
-Are you sure it's safe for you
to be seen talking with me
like this?
-Well, I guess I had thatcoming, ah?
September?
The last thing I need right nowis a scandal, understand?
-I understand.
I just hate for Church to keep
us from being friends.
-I saw your drawingto the Art Show.
-I didn't think you had time
for that sort of stuff.
-I was curious.
-Is it me?
-Yeah.
Once upon a time...
-I saw Jay today.
-And?
What do you thinkof this dress?
-It's great.
September,
Jay's been telling everyone on
campus that you're fooling
around with Father Mac.
-Doesn't surprise me.
-This whole thing is getting
out of control.
-Oh Annie, I'm so confused.
-I mean, you're asking
for a lot of pain.
I just hope he's worth it.
-Oh, when I'm with him,it's so natural, so comfortable.
Like it was meant to be.
-Well, I don't blame you
for going after him.
I just, I just don't want
to see you get hurt.
-I can't help it.
I just can't, ah.
-Hi.
I didn't want
to disturb your work.
-Hello.
-I wanted to see you, I guess
that sounds silly, ah?
-No, not at all.
-You wanna go for a walk?
-Sure, I'd love to.
-Where are you taking me?
-Ah, the garden of Eden.
-So now you believe
in the garden?
-Coat?
-Uhm, yeah!
Thank you.
-September.
You're very special.
-You make me feel special.
-Would you like an ice cream?
-Wait a minute.
Wait, wait a minute.
-Why are you so afraid of me?
-I have these feelings.
They're good feelings,
but they're just not right.
-What's not right?
-I'm a priest.
I made a pledge to the Churchand to God.
-Does that mean
you can't be human?
-No.
No, I'm quite human.
-And you do like me,
don't you?
-September, I like you verymuch, but...
-But what?
-I made my vows.
-Your vows?
A bunch of words you mumbled
when you were too young to even
understand what they meant.
-Uh, two vanilla cones.
-Chocolate.
-I don't like chocolate.
-I didn't say they both
had to be chocolate.
-Come on, I'm trying
to close up here.
-Okay, one chocolate for herand I'll have a vanilla.
-Okay.
-Look, it's delicious.
-There you go.
-Thank you, good night.
-Will we still be friends?
-We gotta be.
-You two go ahead.
Don't let me stop you.
-I just wanted to talkto September.
-It's okay.
-Alright.
I'll get some napkins.
-What do you want?
-I just wanted to seethe two of you up close.
So tell me,
do you like screwing a priest?
- Uh!
-No.
-Ah!
-Hello.
-Hello Michael.
-September?
-I, uh...
I just wanted to call and
apologize for running
off the other night.
-Oh, if anyone should apologize,it's me.
-Why, uh?
-I should have never let it...
Turn into what it did.
-What are you talking about?
-September,
not now, okay, uh.
I have, I have to concentrate
on this show.
I have a lot on my mind.
-Yeah, sure.
I'm sorry.
-I have never,
in my entire life,
met anyone so arrogant.
So insensitive.
And so self-centered as you.
-Uhm.
-You let me finish.
What you did was unfair.
-You wanted me
to fall in love with you.
And when I did...
You hid behind God
to avoid me.
-Here.
-Michael?
Michael, what happened?
-Last night, I...
Frank...
What is love?
-Love?
Love is devotion,trust, caring...
-It's also passion.
I'm only human.
-Of course you're human.
-They expect us to act
as though we weren't.
-Michael...
-I have feelings.
-Then learn to controlthose feelings.
And channel that passioninto God's love.
-I know what it is
to be a priest.
I just want to be a man.
-You chose a higher path,Michael.
Nobody ever saidit would be easy.
Father McCarren.
You made certain pledgesto God and his Church.
Now right now, you don't knowwhether you've sinned
or whether you've justbeen liberated.
But your primary dutyis to that Church.
And by fulfilling that duty,you will find the answersyou seek.
-How?
-Through the grace of God.
You haven't lost your beliefin God, have you?
-No, no I haven't lost
my belief.
I'm just not sure.
-Our doubts lead usto a deeper faith.
Ask his help.
Now, go on home, get some sleep,get cleaned up.
I know you'll make usproud of you, Michael.
-Yeah.
-Hello.
-How are you?
-You must really hate me?
Will you ever forgive me?
-There's nothing to forgive.
-Why haven't you been in class?
-I was too embarrassed
to face you.
-Embarrassed?
You shouldn't be embarrassedof anything.
-Not even of taking my clothes
off in front of a priest?
Sorry, not funny.
Oh Michael, how come
it's so complicated?
-I've been asking myselfthat same question.
The answers used to beso simple.
But they aren't anymore.
-What can be wrong with the way
we feel for each other?
-It's not the feelings,
-Ah you still can't...
-I made a vow
to live a certain life.
This is though
I'm already married,
I can't forsake
that commitment.
Our lives are too far apart.
Still, I want to thank you
for sharing your world with me.
-Oh well.
Not many girls can saythey lost out to God.
So, tomorrow isyour big day, ah?
Are you ready?
-I'm not sure.
-I sure hope Godappreciates what a...
Great champion he's got in you.
-Are you gonna be there?
-It's better that I don't.
You'll do great.
I know you will.
-September...
I love you.
- Father McCarren?
-Well, Michael, ready?
-Ah, yes.
As ready as I'll ever be.
-Good.
- Three minutes to air.
- Ready camera one.
Standby coming.
Standby announced.
One minute to air.
Standby VT roll.
- Jinny Carrey,
University of Georgia,
to do a forward
two and a half pikes.
Degree of difficulty, 2.3.
-What we're going to do for
the next hour, is talk about
this book.
It's called Before God, it's a
novel by C,A, Thomas
and it's a book that's caused
quite a lot of controversy,especially in religious circles.
It's a book that has upset
a number of people andwe have the author here with us.
Mr. Thomas who's going to help
us talk about it.
And also with us, representing
what you might call
the other side
is Father Michael McCarren
for the Catholic Church.
Gentlemen, welcome.
Now, Mr. Thomas, I guess
we should begin with you,
because uh,
well, lately, you've been calleda lot of things.
You've been attacked by your
critics as a heretic,
as an atheist,
as a man who has staged
a one-man assault,
an attack on the Church.
And these are important charges,of course,
because, in your case,
you were a priest
and have left the Church.
So, let's begin with you, why?
Mr. Cavett, I'm afraid that themedia has totally overblownmy...
Importance of my work as thebook was not intended to attackanyone.
-But you do renounce
the Church and, ah...
And leaving the priesthood?
-I've...
I left the Church,I did not leave God.
-And why did you leavethe Church?
-I left the Church becauseit became...
Apparent to me that theChurch was more involvedin the Church than in God.
- 8.5.
-Father McCarren,
that seems to be your cue.
-We obviously
take strong exception
with Mr. Thomas' opinion that
God is a creation of man.
Our conception of God
may be limited by our
own comprehension,
but that hardly explains away
the actual existence of Lord
God.
He is the creative force.
-Father, is, is that...
Is that statement intendedto be a definition of God?
-At least a definition and,
I believe, a reality.
-I accept that view.
-Now, by that you mean that
you don't think it's important
that God be defined as
either simply a definition
or a reality?
-Oh no, actually, it isn't,whether God exists or is acreation of man isn't important.
We need him, we, we use himthe same, either way,
what's important is whatwe do this day.
This day and then tomorrowand the next.
-Where's September?
-Well, she was here
a moment ago.
-Our seeking of God, every day,
will bring us to him, whateverGod may or may not be.
-But why do you choose to give
so little importance to God?
-No, excuse me father,
I'm afraid you've totally
missed the point.
-You've reduced God to a figmentof early man's imagination.
-No, no I don't, I can't.
I can't reduce God.
I simply allow God to be
what he is and for every
individual to seek,
to seek God at their own level,we all have that capacity.
Man doesn't need a burning bush,we have minds.
-The duty of the Catholic Church
is to help man have
a better understanding
of God and the mysteries.
-Yes, but the Church sometimesstifles man's understanding withits dogma, with its rituals.
-It's the rituals that help
create order in our lives,
you know that.
You were taught by the Church.
-Father, I wasn't only taught
by the Church, I said mass,
I was a priest.
But I had to leave the Church tohave my own freedom of thought.
A Church that doesn't allow anyexperimentation when it comes
to questions of faith
and doctrine.
Look, no man needs to be
force-fed someone else's
theory of God.
If we just learn to listen,
just...
Really listen to
our inner voice...
We would know what path
to follow.
-Well...
God's rules are specific.
-Say, you don't believe that,
I don't think you even
believe that.
It's the Church's rules
that are very specific.
-Yes, but we've been following
the Church's rules for
generations and centuries.
-The Church...
The Church needs to help manunderstand God,
not to dictate somedefinition of God.
God will be what manneeds God to be.
He will, he will care for us,he will comfort us whenwe need him.
And Father McCarren...
God will allow youto go your path along.
When you feel you knowyour own way.
-Well.
Father McCarren, I'm sure you...
Father McCarren?
I seem to have lost my priest.
Yes sir, I think you have...
Excuse me, gentlemen.
-Father?
-We're gonna have
to get seatbelts.
-The show is over?
-Yep.
Is your dive meet over?
-I guess I'll never be
a champion diver.
-Wanna take a walk?
-Yeah.