56 Up (2012) - full transcript

- In 1964 Granada
television brought together

a group of seven-year-olds
from all over the country

and from all walks of life.

- I'm going to work in Woolworths.

- I read the Financial Times.

- They talked about
their dreams, their ambitions

and their fears for the future.

- Everything throughout the
year it all landed on my head.

- For nearly half a century,

in a unique ground-breaking
series of films,

we have followed their
lives every seven years.



They are now 46.

Lynn, Sue and Jackie grew up

in London's East End and
were friends at school.

- With this school we do metalwork

and woodwork and the boys do cookery.

All you girls want to do
is walk out, get married,

have babies, and push
a pram down the street

with a fag hanging out
the side of your mouth.

- I think that we all
could have gone in any way

that we wanted to at the
time within our capabilities.

- But we only had a limited choice anyway,

I mean truth be told
we didn't have a choice

of private education because they

couldn't have afforded it anyway.



- Our lives are changing
far too much all of us.

- Well to be honest when you
look at the seven-year-old us

it's difficult to believe it is us.

- I've got to say it girls I
wanted to work in Woolworths.

- I'm glad you said that 'cause
everyone thinks it was me.

- I would like to get
married when I grow up.

Well I don't know what sort of boy

but I think one that's
not got a lot of money

but has got some money, not a lot.

- Have you got any boyfriends?

- That's personal isn't it?

- By the time she was 21 Jackie

had married Mick and moved
to the outskirts of London.

She and Mick had decided early on

that they didn't want to have children.

- Basically
I would have said it's

because I'm far too selfish.

- By 35, she was divorced.

- We decided ourselves, I mean
just between the two of us,

we knew it wasn't going any further.

We both knew I think that
at the end of the day

we would be happier leading our own lives.

And this one on, here you go, oh yeah.

I had a brief but very sweet relationship,

the result of which was Charlie.

I don't really want Charlie to be an only.

I'd love him to have brothers and sisters

but not necessarily loads of
them, one would do actually!

Right Charlie there's yours.

And please eat it all up.

And James.

- Thanks mum.

- Good boy, and last but not least.

Are you going to eat that one for me?

- After her relationship

with Charlie's father ended,
she met Ian and they moved

to Scotland and had two sons

- James.

- By 42, they had split up.

- Lee.

- At 49, despite the split,

the family were living in
the same area of Scotland.

Seven years later, they are still there.

So tell me who lives where?

- Lee will be here until October.

James is here until he
moves in with his girlfriend

which I'm hoping won't be too long.

Charlie has actually
already moved out because

of his dad, or their dad I should say,

because Ian's been diagnosed with cancer

and its stage four so it's quite advanced.

Oh yeah, he likes a thrill.

You know what he's like.

- The strange
part about this is his

mother's also got cancer as well.

- Your grandmother?

- Their grandmother.

Hey come on swans!

She's brilliant.

If I could have chosen a mother-in-law

she was the one that I would have chosen.

She's great for me, she's
absolutely brilliant

with the children and she's just always

there when I need her to be.

She's terminal.

- How long's she got?

- Don't know.

Not too bad.

They don't know how long.

I think they're talking
months rather than years

and to have mother and son suffering

the same sort of thing is very difficult.

- She doesn't want us to
sit around and feel sorry

and be sad she wants us to
get on and live our lives

and it's not stopped her
from trying to live her life.

- It seems to have been

one thing after another really.

My step mum died, my brother-in-law died,

my sister's died, she wasn't 40.

She'd actually gone downstairs
and made herself a cup of tea

and collapsed on the way
back up to her bedroom

and that was a major brain haemorrhage.

- So boys, how is
your mother handling all this?

- In her stride.

- Nothing seems to be
getting to her, it's just...

- She's always been a strong woman.

She will be upset but
she won't let us see it.

She always puts on a
brave face in front of us

but when she's alone or with her friends

that's when she gets the sadness out.

- This is a period

when the four of you feel close?

- We've got to be there for
each other in things like this.

- Actually, I would say
in the last six months

they've all suddenly seemed
to have gotten a new maturity.

My mum cause she's got five girls,

she had seven years bad luck,

that's why she's got five girls.

- Two club sandwiches on brown bread,

one Hilton burger with cheese.

- Charlie is a sous-chef

in a nearby hotel, and
James works part time

as a security guard in
a local super market

- Check two aisles up from
your current location.

I'm expecting a baby in December,
I'm still young obviously

so it was a bit of a shock
but I am excited about it.

- How old are you now?

- 19 coming on 20

- Okay and can I ask are you
excited to becoming a gran?

- I don't know about that.

- She doesn't
like being called granny!

- No, I will be gran, not granny.

Thank you!

Not nappy fill now please
madam, oh look at the face.

Well since you were here
recently we've had a new addition

to the family her name is Mya.

Mya was born on the 21st of November

and unfortunately on the
18th November her granddad,

Ian,the boys dad, was severely injured

in a road traffic accident.

He subsequent died of those injuries.

Unfortunately, he never
regained consciousness

so he never even met
her but he took a photo

of her in his coffin and I
dare say he's looking down

and saying "ha I got away with it.

I've not got all those nights."

- I'm due to go in the
army on the 17th of October

where I'll learn to become a medic.

- I mean I can't stop him now he's 18.

He can do what he likes.

He can sign on without my approval.

But it's a chance he
takes and he knows that

there's a possibility
that he won't come home.

- At the end of the day you're a soldier

and going out to war is
part of being a soldier

and that's what you got to do.

- I want you to do it but
it's not gonna stop me

worrying you know that, you know that.

I took a year off when I had Charlie

and the state kept me for that year

but I went back to work
and although to be honest

by the time I pay everything out

I'm not actually that better
off but I feel better.

James, you watch your catching up to him.

Go on Lee.

I was working up here until very recently

but they've discovered that
I've got rheumatoid arthritis

so at the moment that's put work on hold.

Missy, come on then!

For every one good day I
have I can have two bad,

which means I can't get
out of bed very well.

It takes me two, three hours to get ready.

The poor, if you don't help them

they'll sort of die soon wouldn't they?

- Jackie has been living

on disability benefits for over 14 years.

- I don't cope financially,
without my mother-in-law

stepping in to fill the
gap I wouldn't be coping.

It's really hard to explain to anyone

who's not had to do it, you
get to a point where either

that bill doesn't get
paid or your children

don't eat, so obviously your children eat.

You can go to the charity
shop and get them.

I'll never notice...

- So looking at the world

of cut backs how is this affecting you?

- I along with probably
millions of other people

in this country have
had my benefits reviewed

and they sent me for a
medical and have come back

and told me I'm fit to work
which is a bit of a shock,

what job can I do, I can't use my hands,

I can't sit for long, I can't stand

for long, I can't walk very far.

I don't know how they
expect anybody to employ me

because I couldn't guarantee
being there five days a week.

I mean I'm lucky in as
much as I've got three sons

all working, whilst James here's got Mya

and a family of his own,
Charlie and Lee don't

so they help me out and they have to.

By all means cut the benefits
but you've got people

out there that are healthy
and are milking the system

and they're not touching them,
they're getting away with it.

If David Cameron can find me
a job then I'll go to work,

if he can find an employer, you tell him

to come and get me a job and I'll do it.

Well I know he is hers and he loves her.

- I don't I love him.

- I'd like to have a happy family',

I mean I know that it's
not possible to be happy

all the time but as much of
the time that it was possible.

- Well what about your own life,

what about relationships for you?

- I would like a relationship.

I mean I've been trying
for the last five years

to build up a social life of my own

because I knew that this time would come.

I've been using the internet

which is interesting to say the least.

- Is it scary?

- I mean you know some people have

obviously had bad experiences with it.

Yes.

- But there was
a chap that we filmed when

we were looking at you and
Liz, what happened to him?

- He decided he needed space.

So I gave him that space.

So that was a bit of a disaster.

But that's the way of relationships

sometimes they work sometimes they don't.

- What are you
looking for in a fellow?

- A pulse would be nice!

♪ If I say that I love you ♪

♪ And you know it's true ♪

- You look
great, you seem optimistic.

- Yeah, no I am.

My glass is always half
full never half empty

and that's the way it will
continue to be I hope.

Life's too short and you just
have to try and go on the best

you can and I think my
life's gonna be good.

- What sort of things do you do?

- Ride, swim, play tennis, ping pong.

I might play croquet, something like that.

- I don't think my father
wants me to be a farmer.

My youngest brother, the
deaf one, if he can't

do anything else he can
probably run a farm.

I thought that you and
I were both in the film

as being rural in the
sense that your family had

some big connections to
rural Scotland I thought.

- Yeah and I think
also when we were 21 I seem

to remember having to go to some reunion

or something somewhere and I
remember you just stuck out

as being the one person that I had more

in common with and spoke to the most.

Well I've played for the same four girls

for the last 25, 26 years.

- We've been emailing each other

since forty something...

- I think yes.

It was one night it was just,
I think it was quite late

and I just threw a line at Nick.

So I said I'm going to
bed now I said perhaps you

and I ought to do a double act

on the sofa and I went to bed...

- I'm not sure...

I mean...

- And you wrote back some funny message

that I picked up the next morning.

- Well no wonder
I would wouldn't I?

- When I leave this school
I'm down for Heathfield

and Southhill Manor and
then maybe I may want to go

to a university but I
don't know which one yet.

My home life wasn't very easy then.

I'd been sent off to boarding
school when I was quite young.

My parents marriage was breaking up

and like a lot of
children I think you feel

that you take the blame
for why they've broken up.

That's just the way it was
and I hated the two years

I was away at this first boarding school

and I think that was
probably what changed me.

- Well I hated boarding
school too with a passion.

I was forced to grow, I didn't choose it;

I definitely got some messages
that said you're gonna

be in trouble if you
don't do well and so on.

- But you don't regret it...

- No, no, no.

- And you wouldn't you wouldn't
have the life you have now.

- Hey I'm grateful for it but
it was very uncomfortable.

- I was never one
to push myself forward.

- And nobody else was pushing.

- And no one else pushed me.

I left school when I
was 16, went to Paris,

went to secretarial college and got a job.

- What made you decide

to leave school and go to Paris?

- Well I just wanted interested in school

and just wanted to get away.

- If you have had no
choice but to get out there

and support yourself the
chances would have been greater

that you would have
forced yourself to do it.

- Yeah that's
possibly true but at the age

of 11, 12, 13 are you
really aware of that?

- Now that's a very telling question,

in my world you betcha.

When I grow I'd like to find out all

about the moon and all that.

And I said that I was
interested in physics

and chemistry, well I'm
not going to do that here.

- At 14 Nick was
away at boarding school,

at 21 reading physics at Oxford.

His road to Oxford started
in a one room village school.

- My father was here a long time ago

He must be somewhere in these pictures.

I remember distinctly coming here one day

and I'd missed a day for some reason

and they'd been talking about something

to do with aeroplanes and
the teacher said we missed you

because you would have
known about aeroplanes.

I knew nothing about aeroplanes

but I thought oh I know
about aeroplanes do I?

So then I went off and
read about aeroplanes,

so that could easily have
been the start of I want to go

to the moon and I think she
planted that idea in me.

- Do you have a girlfriend?

- I don't want to answer that.

I don't want to answer
those kind of questions.

I thought that one would come
up because when I was doing

the other one somebody
said what do you think

about girls and I said I don't
answer questions like that,

is that the reason your asking it?

The best answer would be to say

that I don't answer questions like that

but I mean it was what
I said when I was seven

and it's still the most
sensible but what about them?

- I mean if you'd been somebody
who had had fixed ideas

of a woman's role in
marriage that meant dinner

on the table at six every evening...

- Didn't I tell you about that?

- By 28 Nick had married Jackie,

a fellow student from Oxford.

They had a son Adam.

By 42 they were divorced.

- What I concluded and
I've talked to other people

about this who've gone through it,

I'm not sure if they feel it as strongly

as I did but it was like a death.

- Anything could happen, we
could easily drift apart;

there are so many pressures on people.

- If your spouse died you could look back

and think well it was
wonderful while it lasted,

but in a divorce you can't look back

and say these are all happy memories.

- Hey Chris.

- Chris is my new wife.

I don't mean to be superficial but I think

she's the most beautiful
woman I've ever seen.

- Is he sexy?

- Oh man.

Absolutely.

Didn't you have fun with that one?

- Well I always need to learn patience

and, what do I need to learn?

- Shall I get out my list?

- Yeah I think we need the list.

- Go on.

- No.

- Tell me do you
have any boyfriends Suzy?

- Yes

- Tell me about them?

- He lives up in Scotland
and I think he's 13.

- Have you
got any boyfriends Suzy?

What is your attitude towards
marriage for yourself?

- Well I don't know.

I haven't given it a lot of thought

'cause I'm very very cynical about it.

- When I last saw
you at 21 you were nervous,

you were chain smoking, you
were uptight and now you seem

happy, what's happened to you
over these last seven years?

- I suppose Rupert.

I'll give you some credit.

- I'm not chain smoking.

- No I think you can't just
walk through a marriage

and think once you get
married it's all gonna

be roses and everything forever.

It's very hard to actually
say what it is that goes on

between a couple, it's
either there or it's not.

Any marriage has its ups
and downs but somehow

whether it's through luck or determination

we've worked through the difficult times.

- One of my favourite places
in Oxford, Merton Chapel.

Here's this lovely top part of the cross

and there was going to be
the main part of the cross.

This is one of the places in England

that just is tremendously important to me.

After I left the Dales
this was where I spent

the next six years and
then I went to America.

- Look at this isn't this beautiful?

This is Mob Quad.

I believe that it's
historical fact that there

were quite a lot of
students who were massacred

in the Middle Ages and for.

When I came here I thought
I'd died and gone to heaven.

But I was under an awful
lot of stress all the time

I was here trying to succeed
in this place as well.

- Okay, yeah so this was my staircase

in my first year and
also on my third year.

There was this fella who lived
in the room next door to me

and he came in one day
to tell me some story

and on his way out he said "you know

I don't associate intelligence
with your accent."

It would seem really
ridiculous to any of my friends

who watch this if I said "Christ aren't I

a great success look at me, what success?

- By the time he was 28

Nick had emigrated to America.

He was doing research into nuclear fusion

at the University of Wisconsin.

- Tell me about the current drive.

- If you'd have
been offered a similar

type of job over here...

- In a heartbeat.

- You would have stayed?

- In a heartbeat.

I mean I had dreamed of getting
a university job over here.

Maggie Thatcher was squeezing
the universities like crazy

at that very moment in time
and it was the worst time

to be working in a
university in generations.

England doesn't seem to concern itself

with training people like
me and wanting them around.

There doesn't seem to
be a sense of urgency

or a strong will to have
people developing technology

to help keep the country going.

The fusion reaction gives
off energy and produces

the power that would be
turned into electrical energy.

I was on a mission you know to get

extremely cheap, clean
plentiful electricity,

so nuclear fusion looked
like it was going to do that

but even then they were
saying it's twenty years away.

I would say absolutely not in my lifetime.

I mean it was kind of heartbreaking.

So I had to find something else to do.

So the area that I'm looking
at is this times this.

When I go in to a classroom
full of undergraduates I try

and explain to them why they
might want to try and do it.

That's my little attempt to
open a little door for them.

See, there's a method in my madness.

- Nick is a Professor
of Electrical Engineering.

- That's really
impressive, he was the guy.

And my ambition as a
scientist is to be more famous

for doing science than
for being in this film

but unfortunately Michael
it's not going to happen.

- When I get married I'd
like to have two children.

I'm not very children-minded
at the moment,

I don't know if I ever will be.

- What do you think about them?

- Well I don't like babies.

- At 28 Suzy had
two sons Thomas and Oliver.

- Don't touch it.

- By the time she was 34

she also had a daughter Laura.

- Mummy?

- Yeah

- Laura wants you.

- We were lucky we had
a very good family unit

with them growing up and
that meant an awful lot

to me that I was able to do that

for them 'cause I never had it for myself.

- And you've done it.

You've been tremendously successful at it.

- Well you see that's my problem.

I don't think as myself as being,

I just do my best and
do what I can for them.

- Did all your
children go to university?

Your daughter did?

- Yes and my son, the eldest one.

Hello.

I haven't had a successful career no,

but I do feel fulfilled
and I mean I've done quite

a lot of different things
over the last seven years.

You know we all make
mistakes in everything

from parenting to decisions in life,

you make mistakes and that's how

you become the person you are.

- You can talk to me by myself outside

but I'll just meet your
by the garage okay?

All right bye.

- Nick's son Adam

was 10 when his parents divorced.

- When he was first
told he was terribly,

terribly upset and then he
just pulled himself together

and didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Take it easy Adam the main
thing is not to crash.

- Really you don't want
me to crash right now?

- How's he deal with it now?

- He doesn't talk to me
about it very much at all.

He's a private person.

He's getting more mature and he has

to be very patient with me really.

Can you imagine having me for a dad?

Do you think it would be
a low-pressure existence?

Wow this is my little school.

I'm nuts and I would drive a kid nuts

with all my nagging, I mean I drive...

- Do you think you've pushed him

too far which is why
he's now backing away?

- Anything I push him to do he's going

to do the opposite so
there's a real you know.

They'd like to come out for
a holiday in the country

when I like to have a holiday in the town.

It's a fixed reference point in a sense,

the sort of earthy life and death cycle

that you get living on a farm.

And so when something dies it rots

and feeds back in to the earth.

- He has a density to him.

One of the first things he said

to me is my feet on in the mud.

The whole idea of being deep
in the mud and very attached

to a foundation makes good sense to me.

- Nick has two younger brothers,

Andrew and Christopher.

- Well I come up most weekends
and then Chris gets up

usually in mid week so
he helps with shopping

and stuff like that and does
things around the house.

- We don't get over the England very often

and so you can count on
one hand how many times

you're gonna see your
family before somebody dies.

And that's getting more and
more pressing every time

we come; you know, so yeah this is tricky.

- How are they doing?

- Not well, they're very old.

Yeah I don't really want to
elaborate on that and you know.

- But it's
full of emotion all this?

- It's all the stuff
that we repress as hard

as we can isn't it, but yeah it really is.

I'm looking at these
names and who they all are

but this of course is Granny
Hitchon and Grandpa Hitchon.

When I was a little guy I
got up at the crack of dawn

and scooted next door to
spend the morning with her.

So yes when she died when
I was five or six I think,

so I think I was devastated yeah.

- And you still remember her?

- Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

- I know you should let these things out

and I don't I store them up but that's

the character of me now
and I can't change it.

- Thank you very much.

- Oh yes, thank you yes.

Nick is truly English.

I mean my father is
English and I was probably

in my late twenties maybe early thirties

before I uttered the words I love you

to either one of my parents.

There is a difference, a
distinct difference between

the type of English
person he is and the type

of American people I've been with.

So I don't, you may
know the difference too

Michael because you've
been in both settings.

♪ If I say that I love you ♪

- What do you think
about making this programme?

- I just think
it's just ridiculous.

I don't see any point in doing it.

- Why is it that we are

so annoyed about this programme?

- I think the problem I have is

that you don't get a very rounded picture.

You get the odd comment that
comes out on a particular topic

but because of the time
restraint that this programme

obviously has otherwise we'd be on

for a couple of months if you were trying

to get everybody's real
thoughts on things.

- It's just that the
limitations of such things

as what the audience require and the time

don't allow it to be a real study.

I think I'd like to say this
and I'd like to say that

and then they film me sort
of doing all this daft stuff

and it goes on seven days
out of every seven years.

It's sort of biblical something or other

and it's all this excitement and so on

and then they present
this tiny little snippet

of your life and it's like
that's all there is to me?

- When I go home I go and see my mother

and I have tea and watch TV.

And then I do my homework
and I go and see my father.

Were they in the sixties
trying to say that the fact

that I'd supposedly had a
more privileged upbringing

that I should have been the one

who'd become the high flyer and that you...

- Absolutely.

- You having come, I mean I
just think that's so wrong

but is that what they
were trying to get at?

- The idea of looking at a
bunch of people over time

and how they evolve that
was a really nifty idea.

It isn't a picture really of
the essence of Nick or Suzy.

It's a picture of everyman.

It's how a person any
person, how they change.

You know just seeing me this age

and the next age with
more wrinkles and more oh.

- I think we all have got a few of those.

- Oops.

- Oops

- It's not an absolute
accurate picture of me

but it's a picture of somebody
and that's the value of it.

- But then we're putting
ourselves out to be that person.

I didn't want to do it when I was 14.

I know I was very difficult
because I was very anti

doing it; I was pressurised in to doing it

by my parents and I hated it and I vowed

I'd never do it now but here I am.

I mean who knows in seven years

whether it will be done again

but this is me saying hopefully I'll reach

my half century next
year and I shall bow out.

I don't know what happened.

I was quite adamant I
wasn't going to do it

and then, I don't know I suppose I have

this ridiculous sense of loyalty
to it even though I hate it

and that's just such a
contradiction isn't it?

But, and also I think it's
like reading a bad book.

I'll still read it.

I'll still see it through and
I guess I'll put this down

to being a bad book but
I'll see it through.

- Symon was brought
up in a children's home,

the only child of a single parent.

- They say where's your father then?

You know, when your mum's out at work?

They say where's your father?

And I just tell them I ain't got one.

See, I can get on well
with my mother sometimes.

We talk very well with each other

but it's sometimes not quite as mother

and son, sort of more like friends.

- When he was 34
Symon's mother died of cancer.

- There was so many things I
never actually said to my mum

that, just things you
think about afterwards

it's too late because
they're not there anymore.

- What sort of things?

- I don't know, just I love you every day.

When I was born, an illegitimate child,

that's something that's
only whispered about.

People feel strongly
about it in those days

but nowadays it's not a serious matter.

The serious point is whether you

stay with somebody or you leave them.

Since 21 I've got married,
had a couple of kids.

- By 28 he had married

Yvonne and they had five children.

- They've got everything; they've
even got what I never had.

- Which is what?

- A father isn't it?

So I mean they've had everything.

- By 35 they were divorced.

- At one stage they all
stopped seeing me at all

but now a bit older, a bit
wiser and I'm a bit older

and wiser and now three of them see me.

- At 42 he'd married Vienetta.

- We used to go out when we were younger.

We met in the launderette.

- Once a week.

- Once a week in the launderette.

- Vienetta
already had a daughter,

Miriam, and she and
Symon had a son Daniel.

Is there anything of you in him?

His dashing good looks yeah, that's me

and his love of sport as well.

Well today is Daniel's big, big day.

He's now 18 and he's a young
man, he says, and he's done

very, very well with his
schooling and everything.

- At the beginning of the
week I received an email

saying that I got on to my apprenticeship

with Proctor and Gamble,
which I'm very happy

and excited about and I start that

in the next couple of weeks.

- What I want to say is that
I have had the proudest week

of my life with my son passing his exams.

He's passed his test and if when

and he runs through it he might get a car.

♪ Happy Birthday to you ♪

- But here people are undecided about you.

They can be your friend
one day and not the next.

- Obviously when children come in

to foster care family and friends

are involved as well and we have

to ensure the children
are kept safe and secure.

- By 49 Symon and Vienetta

had decided to train as foster parents.

- I went to boarding
school when I was young

and I always felt that
that was regimental.

It didn't allow for
personal care, for loving

from the adult carers so I wanted to do

something like that for
myself in my own home.

- And we always say to foster
carers please do not cut

the children's hair without
the permission of the parents.

- So what's the toughest

thing about being a foster parent?

- You're taking a chance when you do it

because you really don't
know what you're getting.

It's something that all
children want is to be loved,

is to be wanted so if you can give

that to them then
everything else is second.

- You know why Uncle Symon looks younger?

'Cause he's so laid back.

Some of them come back, they ring you up

and say hello Auntie, hello
Uncle and how are you?

They come and have Sunday dinner.

They come and visit us which is good.

- I once tried to count

and I got up to 64 and I stopped.

- Because if you know that you're

going to get 50 people
that Auntie kinda called.

She's like a mother to me.

She's always been there.

There was a time where I
felt like I want to give up

in everything and she kept saying to me

"you have to keep on going,
you have to keep on trying."

I'm getting emotional, sorry.

- When I came through
the airport my family

wasn't at the airport
to collect me and that

so I just had to stay
somewhere for a temporary base.

I was here for I think
about five to six years.

I couldn't have asked for
anything better to be honest.

Yeah they were really, yeah really nice.

- Were you
looked after at some point?

- My real mother died at
birth and my dad remarried

and my mother who made
me the person I am today

'cause she was always
helping other young people

and she used to always say to
us, "don't be jealous 'cause

you've got my love but they've
got no one to love them."

You know?

- As well as fostering Vienetta

also works for an organisation that takes

homeless young people off the streets.

- And what happens
to the fostering children

when you're here four days?

- Symon and I balance
them together, we juggle.

Symon sometimes works
late and then I rush home.

He'll do the school run in the morning.

I'll do the school run in the afternoon.

My job's very flexible.

- So you have
incredibly busy life don't you?

- Very busy.

- Well we started to feel
that we were getting tense

and tight and that normally
means you need a holiday

'cause we found ourselves doing too much

so at some stage you gotta chill out.

- Symon took
the family to Portugal.

- Oh look at this.

- So that's nice.

- That's quite, what do you think?

- It's blingy.

- That's really nice.

- So Jess is
by your first marriage

and Mini's your child...

- Yes

- By your marriage.

And the relationship's strong?

- They know each
other from being young.

They did things together,
went out together.

So they're not like strangers.

- Before I'm old enough to get a job

I just walk around and
see what I can find.

I was going to be a film
star but now I'm going

to be an electrical engineer
which is more to reality.

- By 21 Symon was
working in the freezer room

of Wall's Sausages in London.

- I know I can't stay at Wall's forever.

I mean it's just not me.

I couldn't stay there for that
long, my mind will go dead.

- Do you never
feel that you should be doing

better jobs than these, aren't
you worth more than this?

- No, I haven't really, I suppose

I just like hard work I don't know.

- The factory closed down.

Since then he has worked near

Heathrow Airport handling freight.

- If I'd pushed myself at school

probably I could have done a lot better.

- Does that give
you pause for thought?

- No that means I was a
lazy sod when I was younger.

- If we had got together when
we should have got together

there's no way he'd have
been a forklift driver

not where I am with no way,
not with all that brains.

I've got common sense
and he's got the brains.

- I am the proof that you need
to push yourself and go on.

If you want to get on if
you want things in life

you have to push yourself to keep going.

I should have been an accountant,

but I went in this office,

I looked at this grey, grubby office

and the people there looked
gray-suited and miserable

and I thought this isn't for me.

I want to stay out in the
fresh air, I don't want this.

Years later I realised that
not every office is like that.

Some offices are vibrant and moving

but it was too late
then I'd already sort of

stagnated myself driving forklifts

and working in a warehouse.

- You could have made

a lot of money being an accountant.

- Yes he could have.

- She looks after me.

She doesn't just push
me she looks after me.

She would never let
anything be wrong for me.

- Baked beans, I'll go and get the water.

- At one stage we went
to a marriage guidance

'cause the pressures of being together

were getting to us because we are

two completely different people.

I'm very laid-back, as she always says

if I go any further back I'll fall over.

- Is the chemistry
still there between you?

- Yeah.

- Yeah I think so.

- Yeah I hope so, is it?

- Yes darling.

- Yeah the chemistry's still there.

- Yeah, we've been saying
that, what nearly twenty years?

- Is that all it is?

- Yeah.

Oh come on Symon hurry up, catch up.

- Come on Jess and Daniel.

- Do you think you could

ever retire and ever just chill out?

- There's people who
I have noticed they stop work

and they have no other
interests, they suddenly get old.

- Yeah so you're
old. you've got a few bulges

a few wrinkles but life
still goes on, enjoy life.

- So who won?

I came here first: I think that was me.

- How was it then?

- Beautiful, did I win and just allow you

to come in front of me?

- No, no.

- Dad you was like the person

that comes round on the tractor.

- I think I admire people
with great determination,

like people who have just
come up from nothing.

They build up their life
from absolutely nothing.

- Well do you see
some parts of life as success

and some parts are failure or
do you not think like that?

- No you don't stop life

because you've made a mistake, you know.

- Though it may
go down the wrong road

it doesn't mean that's the
end of the road for you.

There's another chance you have

to turn round and come back
and start again isn't there?

- Do a U-turn and to be honest

what do you think about our life?

- I think there's
been more ups than downs

and hopefully there's
a lot more ups to come.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And what
about the other children?

Where are they now?

What are they doing?

- I'm going to work in Woolworths.

In my life I've been able to do more

or less what I wanted to do.

- My heart's desire is
for me to see my daddy.

It all springs from I think
God and Christ I suppose.

- I read the Financial Times

- It's very irresponsible because we all

want more money as much
money as we can get.

- I want to be a jockey when I grow up.

Yeah I wanna be a jockey when I grow up.

- I'm as good or even better than most

of them people especially,
on this programme.